Duke E101-G propane – Pilot flame Staying Lit

[fixbear]

If the pilot is staying on, that is normal.  The thermostat and blower switch are in series to supply the fire valve.  This unit uses 3 valves, one main and one pilot off the Fenwall.  Then a fire valve to turn the burner on and off with door, thermostat, and blower safety switch.  This way recovery is quicker than going thru a whole restart.

 

wiring diagram is in this manual.  Which control system do you have, “V” or “XX”

https://www.partstown.com/modelManual/DUK-613-E-SERIES_spm.pdf

[fixbear]

I should add, make sure to check the 15  pin Molnex connector that everything has to go thru.  They often get baked.

[josecave]

Hi, Thank you for your response. We have the V controller. I am going to attach a video of what is happening. So it sounds like maybe the problem is that the main burner just is not restarting when it should?

 

This is the oven in action: Duke E101-G – Conversion to Propane – YouTube 

[ectofix]

fixbear wrote:

 

If the pilot is staying on, that is normal.

 

I didn’t know you’d replied to this, fixbear – so I looked in to it.  I have to interject in order to differ. 

 

That module entirely relies on getting 120v input to L1.  That input comes from the tstat and through the motor’s centrifugal switch (when it’s running).

Once L1 is energized, the module trials for ignition at the pilot (output from V1 of the module to the pilot valve).  When that ‘s satisfied, the the module outputs from terminal IND (per the wiring diagram) or MV1 (per the actual module) for the main burner valve to operate.

Here are the module’s terminal markings per a photo from PartTown:

Take note that there’s no separate terminals for the thermostat’s input like on some modules (TH or THS)

 

If the tstat satisfies (opens), the door is opened (stopping the blower & opening its centrifugal switch) OR…the oven is shut OFF, then the 120v going to L1 drops out.  The module is then de-energized in all three scenarios, so no more main burner OR pilot flame.

 

SO…the pilot staying on is NOT normal.

 

josecave, from your VERY well put description of what’s going on, I’m POSITIVE that the PILOT VALVE is sticking open.  You can certainly verify this through connecting some volt meter leads to the pilot valve’s input while everything should be off.  If the pilot is still on while there’s NO voltage at the valve – then there ya go.

 

FWIW:  Here’s Fenwal’s info sheet on that ignition module:

https://www.kidde-fenwal.com/Media/Data%20Sheets/DS_35-703_F-35-703.pdf 

 

ALSO, since that’s a PROPANE oven, I suggest that you shut the gas off to the oven and LOTO (lock-out-tag-out) it until you fix it. 

WHY?

LP is heavier than air.  If that valve is leaking, then the leaking propane gas will settle at floor level.  There are plenty of ignition sources at floor level (refrigeration stuff, fryer pilots, etc.) 

Leaving it in that state overnight is an explosion hazard.

[josecave]

Thanks so much, my friend. You got it, the valve is the problem. I tested it and does not work properly. I guess my next step is to buy a new one and change it. Gracias!! 

[fixbear]

I agree that if the pilot valve is staying open, there is a dangerous problem.  A DVOM should have been used to determine if it had power fed to it first.  I was in a bit of a hurry and being rushed by my wife at the first look.  And miss took the fire valve for it’s true purpose.  Total appliance shut off.  I had worked on a Duke many years ago and remember that their was some form of oddity to the wiring. Almost like a Viking Snorkel.  And the installation of gas solenoids on there side is never a good thing.

 

But the big thing I see is there is no source to find the wiring on the power switch.  Which makes if near impossible to accurately interpret the wiring diagram with clarity   That Gottad 4RC can be made with up to 4 poles and about 20 different switching positions/functions .  Short of buying one and bench testing it, the only way is if someone took a ohm meter and told me what was open and closed in it’s 3 position.  OFF is easy. but what is closed in the cool down and cook modes? 

[ectofix]

I know what you mean…

 

I didn’t go too far into the routing of the power switch outputs since I merely saw its link directly to the tstat and called that my power for a cook cycle.  Neutral was pretty evident down by the module and valves with white wires converging to a common point on the diagram.

 

So, you made me look at the diagram again and that switch IS confusing.

 

I’m with YOU on those types of switches.  Whenever I encounter a rotary selector switch (such as that one or those that Blodgett uses) I’m amiss about which terminals do what…and generally find myself dismounting the switch for gaining gain access to any possible diagram on its body – like relays usually do.

[fixbear]

With the open roarys,  It’s no big deal.  They have single throw and one can see the cams.  I remember fixing a lot of GE down fire boilers built back in the thirties.  But Gottak has brought it to another level with the 4RC. They can not only make a enclosed 4 pole, but also double throw.  And up to 12 positions.  I may have to spend $45 plus shipping  just to bench test the configuration.  What irritates me is that the Spaniards only charged a little over 5 Euros for it  but won’t tell the specs.  And they don’t have the wiring on them like a normal switch or relay.

[WvChamp]

Hello all,

I don’t mean to hijack thread….(Just joined the forum)…If against rules…I apologize.

I also have an E101-G (but natural gas)

My pilot stays lit like the OP. From reading this thread…It’s normal. I’m good with that.

My problem is when I shut the doors (or when it shuts off due to temp reached) the burner and fan (high: both burners or low: single burner) kicks on n off…on n off…on n off repeatedly…never ending.

Just for a little back story….I’ve been lighting the pilot by hand for a while now due to the pilot ignition not auto lighting. No biggie

I sure would appreciate a little guidance into what might cause this malfunction.

Thanks in advance,

WvChamp

[ectofix]

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My pilot stays lit like the OP. From reading this thread…It’s normal. I’m good with that.

@WvChamp

You are incorrect. The pilot should NOT remain lit.

In your oven’s circuit design, the PILOT and MAIN burners should go out whenever the door is opened, the thermostat satisfies or when the oven is turned off. That is because ANY of those scenarios will de-energize the ignition module.

Your oven uses what is called “intermittent pilot ignition”. As such:

The
ignition module energizes the PILOT valve while simultaneously sending
high voltage to a spark electrode to ignite the pilot burner. That
same electrode also senses when a pilot flame is established and sends a
signal back to the ignition module in order to “prove” that the pilot
is lit.Only when a pilot flame is proven will the ignition module energize the MAIN burner valve.

All of that is a VERY important safety feature of that oven. I’ve personally seen the results of an oven BLOWING UP. The oven was destroyed and an employee was hospitalized.

Beings that you are having to physically light the pilot yourself and because you’re witnessing a pilot which ALWAYS stays lit when it’s not designed to be means that your oven is unsafe for use. THE PILOT VALVE IS LEAKING. I HIGHLY recommend that you disconnect the oven from its power and gas sources until it’s repaired.

Since your oven obviously has other, unrelated issues as well, you would be FAR better off by calling a service company to take a look at it.

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