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  • Rational SCCWE202G Gas Reset Error

    guest created 3 months, 2 weeks ago 1 Member · 13 Posts
  • guest

    Member
    May 9, 2019 at 12:00 am

    Have a 2 year old Rational SCCWE202G repeat “gas reset” error when running unit on dry or steam or combination of both. Performed all the usual tests, air intake tubes are spotless, fans running, electrode reading correctly, flu gas analysis is spot on, dynamic gas pressure same, spot on, never happens while I am on site, ran for 5 hours yesterday “empty” which is obviously not under a cook load so not cycling the way it would under a load, but still never got the error while running the entire 5 hours empty. My next line of attack, (unless otherwise persuaded) is to pull the burners? I have read alot of the messages here and on HVAC forum which Ectofix is also a contributor, but havent seen this particular issue. I am half expecting to find a dead mouse inside of burner. Any tips or advice will be greatly appreciated, as always.

  • badbozo2315

    Member
    May 9, 2019 at 5:00 pm

    Are you a approved Rational tech? If so, you need to call the factory and quiz them.

     

    Next, which burner is giving the reset error? Steam or one of the hot air burners?

     

    Are the microamps of each burner appropriate and steady?

     

    Have you reduced the max rpm of the burners to factory specs?

     

    I wouldn’t open any burner without having an ignition electrode, ground elecrode and appropriate gaskets in hand.

     

    If you have a burner open (air), do you know how to check for cracked heat exchangers? Have you read the factory bulletins on this?

     

    I also would replace the ignition module on the affected burner before I opened it.

  • ares

    Member
    May 10, 2019 at 3:42 am

    Well, thanks for the info,  as stated in my original post this general gas reset error occurs during use in either steam or non-steam mode. Also, again all burners showing the specified 5.75 uA during the previously mentioned test cycle, and again, flu gas was spot on along with dynamic pressure readings.

    No, I am not a Rational tech, I run a facilities dept at a large stadium complex and am responsible for day to day operations including kitchen equipment. I do maintain a significant inventory of parts on hand for all of our equipment including the Rationals, but as you saw in my original question, am hesitant to start pulling burners. I simpky found it odd that this particular unit throws the general gas reset error when loaded and not empty as in my diagnostics run. Makes me wonder what is the difference when they have a trolley full of pans and food compared to unit being empty? I dont imagine too many “Rational” techs are loading units with pork roasts in order to run diagnostics, but I guess I could be wrong, but in my 35 plus years in this business I suppose I could have missed the service truck loaded with raw pork roasts along the way. My other thought was when a trolley full of product is loaded in unit and door is sealed against trolley, I would imagine there is a significant change in the pressure dynamics on the heat exchanger tubes, and if there were any faults in any of those tubes it would affect the burners in a significant way? 

  • ares

    Member
    May 10, 2019 at 5:15 am

    Well I guess this would explain the issue, when loaded and door sealed against trolley there is obviously a significant back pressure applied to heat exchange tubes and these cracks are significant. 

  • badbozo2315

    Member
    May 10, 2019 at 12:55 pm

    > error occurs during use in either steam or non-steam mode.

     

    Just be aware for future reference, the steam heat will come on in any mode to bring the boiler up to temp, and be ready to shoot in steam immediately. That’s why I asked about checking the computer to see which burner was complaining. Even in just air heat, that boiler will be standby heating.

  • badbozo2315

    Member
    May 10, 2019 at 1:03 pm

    Again, I’d be contacting Rational or a warrantee service company, as they had a bunch of tube failures due to overfiring the burners. They sent out bulletins for reducing the max_speed setting on the computer to throttle the btus a bit.

     

    You should be able to get this covered under warrantee. They do respond to yelling and screaming by customers. Heck, we have gone in a replaced whole machines for large customers.

     

    And on an ending note, if you have a good many Rational units, even if you’re not a warrantee agent, see if your employer will send you to Shaumburg (I think only in Chicago now?) for the training classes. They are really good.

  • ares

    Member
    May 10, 2019 at 6:23 pm

    Yes you are correct, Chicago, would have to be after the season unfortunately as it’s too dam busy here for the next several months. Spoke with Jim McCormack regarding unit, he is super helpful, and hopefully we will get this resolved next week. He had mentioned the course in Chicago and gave me the lady’s name who organizes it. He also recommended replacing every hose in all units every 2 years. Appreciate the info, I always found this site a great resource for throwing issues out there and waiting for thoughts and ideas from those who have had to deal with issues such as these over their long careers, as no one could possibly have seen everything in the equipment world, even though we may feel like we have. I am the type of person who simply has to know every possible reason and or outcome for every possible scenario or I simply can’t sleep at night. I have seen some crazy stuff over the years, and I find myself every week still saying “wow, I cannot believe someone did that” or “who the f designed this thing”. When I hear the director of stadium operations trying to tell me about some new state of the art piece of equipment that some salesperson showed them I find myself wanting to climb a light tower and jump off. We are presently on the Evo grill kick this season, good concept, but must maintain an almost fanatical cleaning regime, and when the inspector wanted them all tied into the central alarm system I almost cried imagining the chaos of an entire stadium emptying to the sound of fire alarms because some idiot caused a grease fire on a grill. 

  • badbozo2315

    Member
    May 10, 2019 at 7:06 pm

    Yup, they were in Shaumburg when I went for my first training class in, ohh, 2006 or so.

     

    > He also recommended replacing every hose in all units every 2 years.

    That boiler-to-cook chamber short hose is critical. When it fails, steam gets into the component compartment and all heck breaks loose, especially on the 480 volt units- the fan motors will die a quick death.

     

    Rational folks are generally good, much better than early days when they would refuse to even talk to a non-factory trained tech.

     

    Sigh. Kind of glad I’m retired and not having to deal with it all.

  • fixbear

    Member
    May 10, 2019 at 9:05 pm

    badbozo2315 wrote:

    Sigh. Kind of glad I’m retired and not having to deal with it all.

    Yes, but us old farts can still help with the direction of thought.

  • olivero

    Member
    May 11, 2019 at 3:19 pm

    I had a HE crack on a Convotherm 4 as well.

     

    Figured it out when I found water in the HE.

     

    Gotta love it.

  • tonyd

    Member
    May 17, 2019 at 8:52 am

    Rational will help you with this issue. Note this can be caused by the issues the factory bulletin has sent out or pour water. Here are some things to look for.

    To induce the failure you can run a short wash cycle and that should inject enough water into the burner chamber to help you pin point the problem. You must contact the factory to check warranty. Hope this helps. And good luck.

  • rationaltechnician

    Member
    June 25, 2019 at 2:40 pm

    Yes, check gas error codes.

    But the steam generator is only pre-heated in steam mode and combi mode (SCC modes which use steam and combi included).

    When used in Hot air manual mode, steam generator is not pre-heated.

  • holmanelectrical

    Member
    July 4, 2019 at 3:40 am

    Had similar issue with 1 year old CM Plus, would run fine initially – long enough to wonder what the chef was doing wrong, then after about 20minutes running it kept going into reset, checked ignition probe, flame signal, gas pressures, etc, eventually found these cracks in the boiler.Corrosion cracks inside boiler flame tube

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