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  • Chilled Shot Machine Assistance PLEASE

     fixbear updated 2 weeks, 2 days ago 3 Members · 14 Posts
  • hvac70

    Member
    April 20, 2021 at 12:13 pm

    Assistance please! I’m a HVAC tech (old one) and I purchased a nonworking chilled liquor dispenser (Embarco 134a system). I found a leak on the high side schrader and I replaced it. I have no idea what the operating pressures should be. I would greatly appreciate any assistance. UM025MHSA-1R102

  • fixbear

    Member
    April 20, 2021 at 12:51 pm

    What is the machine, Make and model?

    Alternately if you know the design evaporator temp, the ambient temp, and the compressor amps vs. full load amps you can come close. Being a Embarco compressor, it has to be a small unit. Most likely a cap tube system.

  • hvac70

    Member
    April 20, 2021 at 1:36 pm

    Thanks so much for your repsponse Fixbear. There is no make or model on the machine. You are correct, it is a small, cap tube, system. The compressor is an EM65HHR, 115v, 134a, RLA is 3.2, design is 140 LS, 480 hs. The current pressures are 7 low side and 140 high side. The compressor shows frost. Any suggestion or opinion is appreciated.

  • fixbear

    Member
    April 20, 2021 at 3:42 pm

    Single or multiple sumps? If you post a picture of it it may help. Most are considered home machines. They also usually run 15 degrees F.

    Wondering why it has a Schrader valve left on it. They are supposed to be charged thru the process tube and then rebrazed shut. Is the UL label readable as to the charge weight?. If not, you can install a ammeter on the compressor and a clamp on temp probe to the evaporator tail coil, With a warm uncharged machine and a sump full of 80 proof or higher alcohol, you can add enough refrigerant to get full amp load and wait for it to drop. Watch the suction line temp. Slowly add a little at a time as you watch the temp gauges. Once the evaporator is full the temp will suddenly drop to about 10F less than the sump. At that point you should still be below run amps and have a fully charged machine. As the sump cools, the suction pressure will drop as will the amp load. As will the air coming out of the condenser. All this is providing there isn’t a problem with the refrigeration cycle. Like a cap tube blockage, condenser air flow, Compressor condition.

  • hvac70

    Member
    April 20, 2021 at 3:55 pm

    Thanks again Fixbear. It’s a triple sump machine. No UL label that I can find. It has schrader access on both sides actually. I’ll try and post a photograph – not certain of the process

  • olivero

    Member
    April 20, 2021 at 6:07 pm

    In order for us to tell you the pressures, we have to know what temp the liquid is supposed to be. It’s fairly simple to figure out really.

    Just take the temp you want, let’s do a normal fridge.

    36*F box temp, so the refrigerant has to be 36*F right?

    No.

    You need a difference in temperature for heat transfer to occur, normally fridges are around 10*F lower than what you want the box to be.

    So the temperature of the refrigerant should be 26*F which you can find on a P/T chart and that will tell you what pressure it “Should be”

    The same can be done here, if the liquid should be 50*F for example, I would probably kick the evaporator temp down to 35-40*F with 35*F at the lowest so it doesen’t freeze. Common rule of thumb for high side is 20*F above ambient if you don’t know what it should be, but it’s guess work, as long as the high side is above the ambient, you are condensing refrigerant, the hotter the condenser is, the easier of a time it’ll have condensing the refrigerant (within reason of course) which is what it does.

    It sounds like a restriction might be in the system, 140 high side translates to around 110*F which is close to design ambient in Florida, and I wouldn’t think it should be higher.

    Either that or non condensables which has tricked me before. Pulling the charge and weighing in what it says on the label would be a good starting point.

  • fixbear

    Member
    April 21, 2021 at 11:41 am

    Let’s see if we can identify this machine.

    Does it have 3 taps or one one the delivery?

    Are the delivery tap or taps a flip handle or a glass push in. Like a Icy Shot?

    Is the case stainless or painted/plastic?

    Is there a top on two columns for bottles and a air gap for dispensing? With push levers to dispense?

  • hvac70

    Member
    April 21, 2021 at 12:29 pm

    Thank you again Fixbear. It has 3 taps in the front, flip type, all are side by side in a horizontal row. The case is painted. The top has 3 PVC or plastic 1.5 inch tubes in a triangular pattern. The front says Capt Morgan Tattoo, middle one says Cuervo and last one has Black Haus, Goldschlager. The front also says “Calling the shots – Call a cab. I absolutely appreciate your time and effort. Mark

  • olivero

    Member
    April 21, 2021 at 1:41 pm

    Mark,

    Did you figure out what the evaporator temperature should be or what the desired temp of the beverage is?

    Is the question still pressures?

  • fixbear

    Member
    April 21, 2021 at 2:05 pm

    Mark, I don’t know what part of the country your in, but some background on this machine is in order. The spirit industry is always looking to create a fad that sells more product. This machine idea came out of the Fireball fad. Like most fad’s they only last a few years and fade away. Now the machine and label’s on your machine will have been provided by your local liquor distributor to the vender. They have protected areas and are closely controlled by the state they are in. Franchise’s used to cover counties. Then Regions. In the past 7 years as they got law’s to change there has been a big push to create mega distributors over large areas of the country. Like Southern now controls most of the East Coast. During buy outs they want to destroy any liabilities from who they are buying. They may leave the machine at a vender, but will remove any ID that can come back to them. Saves the recycle cost. Oh, I forgot to mention that the heath industry deemed many of the machines unable to be properly sanitized due to their designs. Several companies no longer exist that made them due to this. Like Icy Shot.

    I used to get the Liquor newsletter (Shanken daily), but 2 years ago they started to charge for it. Couldn’t see $248 a year for it. I worked with a Importer of Liquor for several years. Christmas was a big time for gifts from them. And I don’t mean bottles, but cases of really special stuff. Their scouts found a cellar in France with thousands of gallons of Cognac worth tens of millions. They chartered a ship to bring it back and it sunk in the middle of the Atlantic. That and a marketing error with paper lampshades put them under.

  • hvac70

    Member
    April 21, 2021 at 2:35 pm

    Thanks, Olivero. I really have no idea what temp the machine was designed to dispense at. I wish I had some basic idea of what the pressures are supposed to be – even a ballpark. I think I could work it from there……

    • olivero

      Member
      April 21, 2021 at 2:51 pm

      Okay, I think you can.

      Check what the SH is going to the compressor, perhaps where it’s at is where it should be. SH will tell the tale if the system is happy or not.

      That’ll give you an idea, if it’s low then it’s overfeeding and if it’s high, then it’s not feeding enough.

      It’ll at least tell if you the system is operating within it’s paremeters.

  • hvac70

    Member
    April 21, 2021 at 2:37 pm

    Interesting stuff Fixbear. I believe this machine was manufactured in 2005.

  • fixbear

    Member
    April 22, 2021 at 8:01 am

    That’s about right at the peak of the fad. J√§germeister is the one that started it.

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