R-290 PROPANE

[izzygreen]

Most of our manufactures are talking about switching over to propane. Haven’t paid much attention because we’re not equipped for it, but it seems that is the way to go these days

[techjoeb]

We are training our techs on it because our manufacturers are going that way. We are starting to ensure all of the Warranty repair companies are starting to get trained/certified. The specialized equipment isn’t much investment honestly. Just know the industry is going to creep that way. 

 

-Joe

[fixbear]

It’s funny how we go in circles.  We started with R717 and the old monitor top’s.  Anyone who has worked with it has had their burns and breathing problems.  Now we are going to R290 without a smell additive. That’s scary and just a matter of time for a major accident.  I don’t like the 400 blends, as they are zeotrophic and have a lot of glide, need to be liquid installed, and if the system has a leak on the low side one has to dump it all to have the right percentages.  Let’s face it, anyone that has found a receiver in a compressor room that had a rust or vibration crack near the bottom knows that the room fills up with refrigerant to such high levels that a air torch or halide detector will not even burn.  Now we introduce a flammable gas and have a contactor arc.  Oh Boy, Gonna be a hot time in the old town tonight.. 

 

As for crimping and bands,  There are a lot of domestic appliances that use crimp epoxy joints since the late eighties.  They suck and eventually leak.   Automotive also tried it for a short time in the late eighties.   Didn’t work out.  Give me charge valves and nitrogen.  Combustable leak detectors have been out for decades,  .

[izzygreen]

My company isn’t equipped to handle any type of gas or refrigerant so we usually sub out those type of calls,  while my training includes nothing I’ve picked up allot over the years but we tend to stick with electrical and mechanical appliances. Of course we always get that one client who wants us to do all the work and then the boss is mad at me for not doing the job because he wont equip me with the needed fittings and tools

[techjoeb]

The thing with R-290 is it’s such a small amount, it’s less than a lighter full. Would they use them in larger industrial reefers and AC units? I honestly dunno. 

[fixbear]

150 grams of liquid can still be dangerous.  Not being able to smell it worries me.  I realize that the window of flammability is very narrow with propane.  That’s why it’s used in all the stunt work.  But like R717, OSHA will make it totally impossible to use once it becomes popular.  They required built in ventilation with 2 min air change,  Masonry room,  SCBA  training, certification, and packs,  Full coverage PBI suits.  Heavy rubber gloves,  Carbon dioxide flooding system.  Face shield, and rubber apron.  So unless the system is over 1000 tons, it just isn’t practical. Yet it is the most efficient refrigerant there is.  One can still do absorption units, but you have to build a fireproof service area. and have Hydrogen licensing.  And the insurance for that isn’t cheap..

 

150 G is two lighter refill containers, not a lighter full. Most of them hold 2.5 to 5 G.

[techjoeb]

So from what I read it’s comparable to R22. Here is True posting a video on YouTube: True’s R-290 Refrigerant Recovery System – YouTube 

 

-Joe 

[techjoeb]

Recovery? Who needs recovery? Secop/VULKAN Lokring – Replacement of R600a and R290 Compressors Without Brazing – YouTube  (It’s a long one) 

[ectofix]

R290.  A hydrocarbon.

 

I’ll share some things regarding hydrocarbon refrigerants that I’d written about three years ago.  I had a genuine interest on this topic then, but I’m not doing refrigeration now.  Nonetheless, I had enough interest to “put my pen to paper”…so to speak, so I might as well share it here.

 

These “copied & pasted” writings are dated, so may not be entirely accurate as of today.  I’ll also add some things about ILLEGAL hydrocarbon refrigerants too

 

.These will also be long.  Sorry about that.  So, I won’t post them all at once.

 

 

If you’re going to be doing refrigeration (or HVAC), you’ll need to have your head wrapped around the possible implications.

[ectofix]

Here’s a link to the first:  Proposed EPA rulemaking – hydrocarbon refrigerants

 

I’d thrown that together in July 2014.  This was the product of my research on the EPA’s proposed new ruling on hydrocarbon refrigerants: