MemberFebruary 21, 2020 at 4:46 pm
So got a fryer issue.
The chef that uses the fryer told me that the fryer goes into trouble consistently. He did what the manual said and turned it off and waited 30 sec to turn it back on. Apparently he has been doing this for a month and didnt tell me.
I looked at the pilot light and it lights up (blue) without issue then just turns off and goes into trouble.
I read olivero’s post last year about the fryer issue he was having and that the chef using the machine was moving it past the safe setpoint. This is not happening.
I turned off the machine, moved the temp down to 0, then moved it up until it lit the pilot light and within 5 seconds no matter where it was set the machine went into trouble and the pilot went out. There is still approx 0.5” of space to move the temperature knob before it hits the end of its “swing”
I checked the breaker and nothing is tripped, I reset it anyway. The machine has been being used for a month with this issue and it has been getting worse to the point where I am at now.
I personally have never worked with or used a fryer before so have no clue where to start from with this machine.
Also I dont know if this data makes any sense or am I being incomplete with the data I am providing
MemberFebruary 21, 2020 at 4:48 pm
To answer a question that disappeared.
It has a blower on it when you open the cabinet door.
The model number is in fact FPH155-SD. The guy I replaced had the wrong manual in the office.
MemberFebruary 21, 2020 at 4:56 pm
When I select the manual on Partstown, it pulls up the H50/55 series fryer manual. Is that that same thing?
MemberFebruary 21, 2020 at 5:02 pm
MemberFebruary 21, 2020 at 5:01 pm
So it’s an H55 –
Therefore your remark about it remaining lit for only 5 seconds and then going into help makes perfect sense. That’s an IGNITION FAILURE condition. The ignition module will lock out in five seconds if it can’t prove flame.
Basically, after the temp control calls for heat and energizes the ignition circuit, the ignition module powers the gas valve while simultaneously sending spark to BOTH ignitors (there are TWO burners – one on each side of the vat).
If the ignition module can’t prove flame (through flame rectification) within five seconds, the module terminates the ignition trial, locks out and sends an alarm signal to the controller that there’s a problem.
About all I can tell you to do is to:
- Make sure the blower is running, nothing is blocking the air inlet and the bow-tie looking air dampener is open about 1 ½”
- Make sure the gas supply is fully turned on and the gas hose quick-disconnect is fully engaged. Gas pressure from the combination valve to the burners should be 3”WC.
- Inspect to be sure the wire connections to each of the two ignitors are clean and secure.
- Inspect the exhaust flue to be sure it isn’t blocked by anything.
Those are just off the top of my head. Based on your telling me you saw a blue flame, that eliminates the possibility that the drain safety switch is open. It will have one of those if there’s a built-in filter system – which your DOES.
There’s a steep learning curve for learning how those fryer operate, since they appear complicated to the novice. For that matter, it’s an entire days lesson in the classroom at their factory in Shreveport LA.
Do you have access to it now? If so, can you give me the first six digits of the serial number?
EDIT: Never mind about the serial number. Looks like you found the manual.
MemberFebruary 21, 2020 at 6:57 pm
So I checked the voltage from the ignitor to the sensor on the module and was getting 2.5v and when it went into alarm it jumped to 3.5v
I unplugged the alarm plug and for whatever reason the fryer has not gone into trouble since.
I havent checked it in the past hour, which I will be going back in 2 hours to look again. Just had to step out of the building.
This make sense?
MemberFebruary 21, 2020 at 7:15 pm
I just re-read my post. So let me clarify:
I unplugged the sensor connection and put my volt meter from the ignitor wire which connects to the sensor port, and checked the voltage to the module. It was reading 2.5v and then went into alarm when it hit 3.5v
I then turned off the machine, replugged in the ignitor wire to the sensor port and then unplugged the alarm wire.
Fired up the machine and it no longer went into alarm while I was there for approx 5min.
MemberFebruary 21, 2020 at 8:44 pm
That’s not a fix.
Go back and reconnect the alarm. All you did was cut off the communication from the ignition module to the temp control panel to indicate that there’s a problem.
THERE IS AN ISSUE with either the creation of a proper flame at the burner OR the flame sensing circuit.
There are too many details about what to check and why you should check it for me to go into it here. Mostly about reading flame current. I’m simply not going to give day long lessons here.
You must know and understand that fryer, gas controls and the fryer’s circuit configuration to properly troubleshoot it.
The best I can do is to link you to a Frymaster Technical Reference Manual. However, I can’t find any on the internet, so I’ve attached a 2004 version. It says it’s for H50 & 52 fryers, but it all works the same.
Beware: Just like the service manual – it gets complicated due to all the variables of that fryer’s design.
MemberFebruary 21, 2020 at 8:47 pm
By the way. DON’T attempt voltage readings of the flame sensing circuit. That might damage the ignition module.
Proper readings are done using the micro-amp (μA) setting of your meter…if it’s capable of doing so. Not all meters CAN. THAT test determines whether there’s proper flame rectification to prove flame by the ignition module.
That module in your picture requires 0.7μA within five seconds to prove flame.
MemberFebruary 21, 2020 at 8:53 pm
VOLTAGE reading should be done in parallel.
AMPERAGE readings are done in series.
MemberFebruary 21, 2020 at 10:03 pm
I went over with him and checked the signal coming back from the flame circuit, it was 2.2.
Alarm wire was plugged back in and it seemed to work fine, I’m wondering if that flame sensor wire was loose or the connection was corroded.
fixbear - ADK NYMemberFebruary 22, 2020 at 2:08 am
Ah! 2.2 what?
MemberFebruary 22, 2020 at 7:20 am
That very well could be the case. The terminals on those white wires connected to the igniters get HOT. They do get oxidized over time.
If I see that, those hi-temp wire terminals are the first things I’ll replace.
OH, and YES….2.2 (what?). Please speak with a unit of measure that you’re referring.
MemberFebruary 23, 2020 at 9:43 am
It was 2.2 micro amps.
Yea, like olivero said I reconnected the wires and everything was working fine. The chef’s were using the fryer on Friday night and all of Saturday without issue. I will check again to ensure no issues throughout the day. Will keep everyone updated.
MemberFebruary 23, 2020 at 9:45 am
Just as a side note, I always thought the point about connectors loosing connection due to corosion or whatever was total BS. I have tried cleaning connectors for years and it never resolved anything.
Well now I see that it is true, and that was the issue (hopefully).
MemberFebruary 23, 2020 at 4:48 pm
I always thought the point about connectors loosing connection due to corosion or whatever was total BS.
I canâ€™t understand your thinking on THAT one. Corroded or loose connections are the two greatest cause of equipment failure.
MemberFebruary 23, 2020 at 4:50 pm
On that note, I’m really becoming weary of having to go back to edit my posts to remove all the </div><div></div> things.
MemberFebruary 23, 2020 at 4:59 pm
Sorry, I assumed we knew we were talking micro amps due to having spoken about it briefly before, my mistake.
The machine requires minimally 1.5 MA and it was 2.2 MA so I’m thinking the ignition board is bad, like what Nafets is saying.
What’s your take on it Ectofix and Fixbear?
MemberFebruary 23, 2020 at 10:17 am
Well, issue started up again.
I am going to replace the module on the fryer, as it is getting the correct micro amps per the manual.
MemberFebruary 23, 2020 at 5:01 pm
So…you read and consistent 2.2 micro-amps ON BOTH SIDES?
Before replacing the ignition module, I suggest:
- Replacing the hi-temp wire terminals with new, clean ones.
- Remove and inspect the igniters. They fail W-A-Y faster than a module. For that matter, I usually replace those if I see ANY issues with them. Issues such as corrosion, oxidation, loose electrodes in their insulators.
- ALSO – one-half of the two flame circuits are through GROUND. Make sure all ground connections between the ignition module and the frypot are good, clean & tight. Use some new screws when re-installing the igniters since those screws are your ground connection between the igniter body and the frypot.
MemberFebruary 23, 2020 at 9:00 pm
There’s only one burner on this, at least from what I saw. One ignition module, one spark wire.
2.2 MA coming back, stable at the time.
MemberFebruary 23, 2020 at 5:06 pm
Sorry, wrong thread, this has nothing to do with this.
MemberFebruary 23, 2020 at 5:30 pm
Ya…and you beat me there, too!
You said there pretty much what I was going to.
MemberFebruary 23, 2020 at 9:09 pm
Like olivero said there is one burner, this is a single “batch” fryer.
2.2 micro-amps consistently, flame is there, but the module goes into trouble.
MemberFebruary 24, 2020 at 5:12 am
Per your model number, that single fryer is a H55 series.
- There is a left and a right-hand IR burner.
- There’s an igniter for each burner.
- The ignition module you shared a picture of is a TWO channel. If you look at it, there’s a SPARK 1 and a SPARK 2. At the top of the module is a SENSE 1 and a SENSE 2.
Open the door and look behind the blower motor and the drain valve handle. THERE you’ll find the second, left-hand igniter. You need to check its connections and read its flame current just like you did on the right-hand one.
Here’s a picture of a naked frypot:
MemberFebruary 24, 2020 at 9:34 am
>I looked at the pilot light and it lights up (blue) without issue then just turns off and goes into trouble.
What Frymaster controller has a blue pilot lamp, and a “trouble” lamp? Maaaybe one of the old analog ones?
And if it’s true it has just one burner, it’s like he has one of Frymaster’s *pasta cookers* with the one undermount IR burner.
MemberFebruary 24, 2020 at 8:48 am
First, where do you find this stuff?!?!
Second, I will check it today.
MemberFebruary 24, 2020 at 4:21 pm
<div>First, where do you find this stuff?!?!</div>
Oh…I just make it up as I go…
MemberFebruary 24, 2020 at 4:22 pm
MemberFebruary 24, 2020 at 4:48 pm
Is someone preventing you from spilling your secrets of where you find all this stuff?
By changing it to </div><div>?
MemberFebruary 24, 2020 at 5:30 pm
No. The picture is one I got off the internet and I used paint for the arrows and text. Did that before I left for work this morning. Took about ten minutes.
Just so you two understand, I know these fryers VERY well. I even wrote an in-house technical reference manual on them for the guys at work some years ago. One without all the “fudge” – so dumbed down to our needs. We have over forty of those fryers at our properties.
For instance: I knew right away from the model number he gave (FPH155SD) that it has:
- A SINGLE H55 high-efficiency gas fryer. So…Frymaster’s classic, thirty year old design that heats using two infrared burners – one on each side that are mirror images of each other.
- A design that once used two separate ignition modules. One for each burner. In the early 2000s, they went to a single, two-channel module in place of two seperate modules. All high-efficiency fryers made since then (except for ones made for McDonalds) use the two-channel module.
- A Footprint Pro filter system. I’d venture a guess that it has a spreader cabinet to accommodate the width of the filter system underneath…and to provide a dumping station next to the fryer. Probably has a heat lamp mounted above that.
- Because that fryer has a filter system, there’s a drain safety switch to disable the heat circuit when the drain valve is opened. That’s also a source for nuisance service calls because, unless the drain valve handle is FULLY closed, the unit won’t heat and will display HELP.
- That fryer LACKS a computer, so it probably uses an analog temp controller. The one which has a knob to adjust temperature.
- It has stainless steel doors, bezel, ledge and flue riser, but is cabinet sides are painted instead of being stainless too (stainless steel cabinet would be a different model number).
MemberFebruary 25, 2020 at 8:56 am
All correct except for the heat lamp. You happen to have a copy of that reference manual?
MemberFebruary 25, 2020 at 3:56 pm
So I checked the fryer and both flames were lit. I replaced the module and so far no issue, the chef made some fries which were good.
Will check back tomorrow to ensure no further issues.
fixbear - ADK NYMemberFebruary 25, 2020 at 4:26 pm
More than likely then, you had a bad connection. It not common for a ignition module to go on one channel. I would guess that 80 % are replaced when they are not the problem. But getting techs to understand the system and fully trouble shoot it is. I’m going to piss some guys off with this next comment, but here it goes. Most of the techs out there are parts changers. Not troubleshooters. To be the latter, one has to study and understand the system they are working on completely. Take the time, even if it’s your own, to learn all about what you are about to fix. .We are in a great time to do this as we have a lot of resources available from the internet. Not like what I had to do 40-50 years ago.. Take the time. You will see the benifit latter.
MemberFebruary 25, 2020 at 4:39 pm
Most of the techs out there are parts changers. Not troubleshooters. To be the latter, one has to study and understand the system they are working on completely.
There’s another forum I drop by occasionally called Appliantology.org. It focused on household appliances. I’m a fan of the couple that runs the site. I’ve watched the webinars and listened to podcasts that are FREE. They offer training courses too (which I’d LOVE to take), but they’re too pricey for ME to get into since I think I’ve got this stuff nailed down for MY purposes and probably wouldn’t get much EXTRA stuff out it. They created the course to focus on the TECHNOLOGY of appliances rather than teaching each manufacturer’s appliances.
- The closest thing there is ON-LINE to provide such training on COMMERCIAL EQUIPMENT is Ignitor Labs. However, I’m not sure whether they cover CFESA level stuff anymore (haven’t checked them in awhile).
ANYWAY…in his blogs and media, he often refers to PCMs.
PCMs? What is THAT?
It’s a comical reference to parts changers, but HIS name for them is Parts Changing Monkeys (PCMs).
MemberFebruary 25, 2020 at 4:28 pm
Both burner’s flames SHOULD light simultaneously since they’re both supplied gas and ignited simultaneously. AND…they’ll both go OUT simultaneously if there’s a lockout condition due to ignition failure.
However, since each of the two burners have their own, separate igniter/flame sensor electrodes – EACH burner’s flame circuit needs to be inspected and tested. Despite the 2.2μA reading on the RIGHT burner, if there’s a flame sensing issue with the LEFT burner that’s causing flame current to drop out, then the module locks out BOTH burners…obviously.
MemberFebruary 26, 2020 at 8:54 am
So today, the fryer is still working like a champ. I will check at the end of the night to confirm it is still good.
MemberFebruary 29, 2020 at 7:20 pm
So to wake a thread that I thought was dead….zombie thread.
The fryer starting acting up again. Three solid days of no issue and now it is back to going into ignition failure. But what is odd, is that it is hit and miss on whether or not it will go into trouble.
Example, this morning I just changed the outlet (there is two separate outlets on the back wall) and the machine ran all afternoon. Thought maybe something got into the outlet. Then this evening checking it again and it was in trouble.
I checked micro amps on both burners and it was 2.2
And I checked each valve connection and each was the same on both sides of the module.
I replace the ground connection which attaches from the board (not module) to the cabinet as it was bent and I figured that might be the issue. Again the fryer worked for approx 1 hour then started having trouble again.
fixbear - ADK NYMemberFebruary 29, 2020 at 7:46 pm
If the module is seeing the correct flame sensing current on both burners without fluctuation but still shutting down you haven’t watched it long enough. Your either having a fuel or air problem that is changing as it runs or a intermittent connection of the flame sense circuit. Or a electrical connection to the control circuit. Not seeing it makes me have a disadvantage. Are the flame sensors and igniter clean? Are they mounted tightly and clean? Is the ground wire tight and clean? Both ends?
Are you certain it is a flame alarm? Not say a high limit. Or posibly a gas valve vent plugged and the flame dropping below normal levels. Check the gas valve vent hole.
MemberFebruary 29, 2020 at 8:51 pm
So, what is happening is the 2.2 fluctuates, it goes from 0 – 2.2 then 0, etc. Not a stable 2.2. I don’t know if that is normal or not and didnt think to mention it until you commented on it.
I did see that the flame is blue, which per a picture which I just saw for this machine says that is “poor” and means low air. It should be red. I looked at the fan and it is definitely not clean. I just reprimanded the cleaning crew for the state of the under area of the fryer. Found a lot of grease build up and other food items left underneath. So that is going to be cleaned.
Otherwise tomorrow I will be re-doing the connections at the end of the wires that connect from and to the module and cleaning the ground connections since that is likely an issue along with the air output from the fan.
Is it likely that the fluctuation in micro amps is due to poor air flow?
fixbear - ADK NYMemberMarch 1, 2020 at 11:41 am
You fluctuation is going to be either fuel, flame shape, or air variation Check you gas valve vent first. Fryers all like to get grease in the hole or pipe that slows the regulator for reacting to flow change. You can also watch the window for flame shape and variation. I know the one behind the fan motor is a bit difficult. But if both are varying, I’m betting on the gas regulator. Your manometer will tell you.
MemberMarch 1, 2020 at 4:19 pm
Okay, I will check that.
I did want to say though, that I did what you recommended above and checked the connections and cleaned where they make contact. The machine then fired up when I couldn’t get it to start. It is not running for a consistent 3.5 hours without issue.
Regardless, the gas vent will be checked and cleaned.
I will also check the micro amps again to verify that the issue is resolved, since from I understood from your post and this might be a bit of dub-in that if there is no longer and issue there will be no fluctuation. Correct?
MemberMarch 1, 2020 at 4:41 pm
@fixbear is checking all the correct boxes. You’re gonna have to methodically go through and check out the things he’s mentioned.
Also – if the blower is dirty, you’ll need to remove it, take it apart and clean it.
I’m working on that reference manual for you. Just trying to remove info that’s not applicable to your fryer. However, given your problem, attached is an unrevised section that should help you NOW.
Like I said, I’m working on getting the whole thing to you.
MemberMarch 1, 2020 at 5:19 pm
Hot damn. Thanks a lot.
I will download it and go through it.
MemberMarch 1, 2020 at 6:25 pm
If you choose to read through the OPERATION section, be sure to have the colorized schematic layed out in front of you so you can follow it. Also keep in mind that YOUR fryer uses a DUAL SPARK MODULE instead of two SINGLE spark MODULES.
Behind the control panel and next to the module is the INTERFACE BOARD. That board will be a key feature to your troubleshooting of many problems these fryers can have. Test points. The LED lights. Etc. More about that when I get you the whole book.
MemberMarch 2, 2020 at 11:18 am
Thanks for that.
MemberMarch 5, 2020 at 1:26 pm
So 4 days in a row now with no issue. I am going to caulk this one up as also a DONE.
ectofix, whenever you get the chance to finish posting up what you have been working on I would greatly appreciate it. I will be distributing it to all of my associates that use gas fryers similar or the same as mine.
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