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  • Isomac Tea/Rituale E61 random autofill

     okwestern updated 2 months, 2 weeks ago 3 Members · 16 Posts
  • okwestern

    Member
    February 16, 2021 at 11:05 am

    Hello. I just sold my Isomac Rituale E61 (almost identical to Tea), but the new owner complains it randomly autofills and doesn’t stop once it starts. Water comes out of the small angled outlet which is connected via hose to the vacuum breaker. I took it back and acid treated the boiler and level probe (as I thought it was getting wrong resistance between earth and level probe). I put 1.5L fresh water + 30g citric acid in the tank, removed the level probe cable so the pump filled the boiler until it was brimfull. I then reattached the level probe cable and let the boiler heat a bit, turned off the machine and opened the steam valve (to let out gas build ups). Left it like this for several hours. Then unscrew the brass pipes and drained it completely, then flushed several times with fresh water. I also cleaned the autofill PCB with electrical cleaner spray. I didn’t see any damage or strange things on the PCB.
    I then left it powered for 12 hours straight (with a few brews during the day), with no autofill problems. I saw the pressostat kicked in at random pressures (some times did not turn off), so I replaced this with a new one. Handed it back to the new owner, but it started randomly autofilling again.
    Anyone with the same experience? Was I just lucky when I tested it for 12 hours? Or could an earthing / grounding problem in his house cause it?

  • techtownmayor

    Administrator
    February 16, 2021 at 12:01 pm

    Are they running the water through a filter system? I’ve heard of sensor probes not working right when the water was filtered to the point of no longer having enough mineral content. Some homes and restaurants have these big (cheap) reverse osmosis filter systems that essentially strip all the minerals from the water and make what is essentially close to distilled water… Others have the same, but never replaced the mineral additive cartridge (or didn’t know they had to change it).

    If it works on your bench, but not with the customer, the most likely sources (to me) would be the water or the ground/earth. Did you also clean the connector on the sensor (or just cut it off and crimp on a new one).

    And finally, can you test their ground? It wouldn’t be the first customer I’ve come across with faulty wiring…

  • okwestern

    Member
    February 16, 2021 at 2:25 pm

    He’s using the machine at home and does not have a water filter. I told him yesterday to run it from an unearthed outlet, same result (but I have no guarantee he actually ran it from an unearthed outlet). He remodelled his house last year (which may or may not have included new cables in the wall). But he said his electrician installed a new earth-leakage circuit breaker, which would have tripped if there was some grounding issues in his electrical system? We live in the same small city, so water supply is most likely the same. So I really don’t understand what’s going on here…

    • techtownmayor

      Administrator
      February 16, 2021 at 3:21 pm

      Did they ensure the water lines are grounded as well? I’m sorry, my electrical training is European based, but I assume in the US water lines need to be bonded as well?

      Is the unit back with the customer? I’d have them have the unit fill then measure between the probe.

      Don’t you just love problems that only show up when you are not there? Good luck, I’m sure the fellow members here will have some good tips too!

  • okwestern

    Member
    February 16, 2021 at 3:26 pm

    I think they are, all though it’s not plumbed, but tanked. I’m based in Norway. Yes, sadly it’s back with the customer (angry one which wants to cancel the deal).

    • techtownmayor

      Administrator
      February 16, 2021 at 4:01 pm

      If the water can be ruled out, then the probe or the board… I assume it always worked fine in your home?

      Lykke til!

      • okwestern

        Member
        February 16, 2021 at 6:39 pm

        Yes, it did 🙁

        Thanks!

  • fixbear

    Member
    February 16, 2021 at 6:32 pm

    Is this supplied by a tank or house water? I’ve seen the house systems have different pressures that cause a weak parker solenoid valve leak. Hell, my own Excobar is one. But make sure they are giving you accurate information. It’s common for the pressure switches to fail intermittent.

    The level sensing probe does not care about house ground as much as a current path from the boiler to the probe and threw the controller. Check the internal ground connections.

    • okwestern

      Member
      February 16, 2021 at 6:38 pm

      Tank. It’s not the solenoid that causes the problem, but the pump engages, so it’s either picking up a wrong resistance from the probe or the controller is off.

      I just replaced the thermostat as it was sometimes sticking.

      So you don’t think house ground could have anything with it?

  • fixbear

    Member
    February 16, 2021 at 7:36 pm

    Not unless there is something feeding it power.

    You said temperature switch. Not a pressurestat?

    • fixbear

      Member
      February 16, 2021 at 7:45 pm

      all the controller wants to see is a small current flow from the probe back through the chassis to indicate the probe is in the water. Measure the output of the controller to the controller ground and again at the boiler. You may have a bad ground. Also note the humidity at the location. It can have a effect on the sensing.

      • fixbear

        Member
        February 16, 2021 at 7:46 pm

        Should be DC volts your looking for

  • fixbear

    Member
    February 16, 2021 at 8:09 pm

    Don’t rule out the check valve as being the problem.

  • okwestern

    Member
    February 22, 2021 at 5:16 am

    The guy cancelled the deal and gave it back. And wouldn’t you know it, same behaviour at my bench. After an hour or so, the pump engaged and wouldn’t stop.

    I inspected the PCB, which was without any damage. I’m suspecting an electrolytic capacitor. The PCB is located so close to the boiler that when it will become sufficiently heated, it might cause problem? Or maybe one of the caps are dried out (machine is stamped 2008).

  • fixbear

    Member
    February 22, 2021 at 9:00 am

    Sounds like the sensing probe has a electrical leak. Check the anti vacuum valve to see if it may be leaking steam at a very low rate causing a moisture build up near the sensor. Clean the top of the boiler with alcohol and then take a Q-tip with a moisture displacement liquid like WD-40 and wipe down the sensor porcelain and shaft, that will tell you. There is a lot of airborne grease in cooking areas that with a small amount of moisture will be conductive.

    • okwestern

      Member
      February 22, 2021 at 9:06 am

      Wouldn’t that be the opposite? Pump engages when the resistance rises above some threshold, right? But with accumulated steam at the top or grease between the sensor and ground, both would lower the resistance, and shutting off the pump.

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