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Help on Cleveland steamer
I have a Cleveland steamer mod.# 24CGM200 ser.# 99469-06L-01. The problem I am having is the alarm for the ignition keeps going off and unit has to be reset. The ground is clean. The ignition module, cable, and ignitor/sensor have been replaced along with gas valve. Sensor is in good position over flame. Sometimes it will run for 5 minutes before going off, other times it will shut down after only a few moments. Contacted manufacturer and all they said was it’s losing it’s signal. ( I know that, that’s why I called). They couldn’t tell me why or where to look. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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26 Replies
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Alrighty.
Measure the MA signal, what is it?
Measure tha A draw off either of the wires going to the gas valve, what is it? it’ll be 0. something. It’s important.
Only so many things can go wrong.
Verify the Ma signal, if it’s stable and strong, it’s not your flame rod or wire coming back to the IM.
If your MA signal cuts out and the flame dies, then check your gas valve, hook a manometer to it and check the outlet port while measuring the A draw and see what happens.
If the flame is established which it sounds like it is, you are either loosing the signal, or loosing the flame.
Let me know back.
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Sounds like your losing flame sense. That can be a bit difficult to find if intermittent. Do you have a DVOM that can measure uf amps. If so, measure the sense current on the ground wire. It should be 1.5 DC micro-amps. If low, check your pilot flame to make sure it is engulfing the sense rod, That the pilot ground wire connections are clean as well as the HV ignition wire. And that the ignition module has a full 24 VAC
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So what happened?
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Sorry for my delay in replying, I forgot to. They had an ignition cable for a 300k btu unit (was working on a 200k unit) which was more than twice the length than the one it called for. Since this cable also is the flame sensor to the control module, I reasoned the resistance was incorrect. Put in correct cable and worked fine. Except now it is starting to do the same thing again.
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</div>Is that why you posted a thread on flame sensing?
If so, we should just take it over there for now
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This is from Groen;
With 24 VAC to the ignition module 24 VAC is sent to the gas valve.
The gas valve is energized.
The gas valve opens to the initial stage and sends gas to the burner.
The initial stage for a 200,000 BTU boiler base natural gas is 1.25” W.C.
The inital stage for L.P. boiler base is 2.5” W.C.
A spark is generated at the igniter.
The gas is ignited and the flame rectifies the AC current.
The ignition module reads 1.5 micro amps DC current through the ground wire.
If the module does not read 1.5 micro amps DC in 4 seconds it will lock out.
When the ignition module locks out 24 VAC is sent to the buzzer from the alarm terminal on the module.
The gas valve continues to open to 3.5” water column in 6-8 seconds for natural gas boiler base and 10” W.C. for L.P.
Hope this helps. Damn Honeywells
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Thank You, this does help.
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Honeywell’s work fine on HVAC heating equipment. But when it comes to the kitchen environment I prefer Fenwal. The biggest problem with the Carrier rooftops was corrosion of the combustion chamber ground wire terminals. Had to replace quite a few of the fount panels of the combustion chamber/ burner mount.
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I’ve seen those where the boiler develops a hole and drips on the igniter. It may not start until the boiler heats up.
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I’ve found checking the transformer output to the input to verify wether it is in phase or not can solve the flame sensing problem. When you probe the hotsupply leg to the hot transformer leg you’ll get 90ish meaning it’s in phase and good, if you get 150ish means it’s out of phase and the waveforms will create noise in the circuit that will negate the flame current.
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Beef, Expand on this please. like what form of measurement is a “ish”
Transformers are a isolation device. They can be used strictly for isolation or as a voltage changing device. Unless it’s a buck-boost, They are for isolation.
Depending on the design, they do move the phase angle back a little. Just like any inductance load. Capacitance moves it forward.
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I have seen this when the boiler has a hole and steam/vapor/water gets on igniter….
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