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  • Groen vs Cleveland Kettles

     wtrapp updated 1 year, 2 months ago 1 Member · 13 Posts
  • guest

    Member
    March 10, 2019 at 12:00 am

    Which would you recommend, a Groen or Cleveland kettle?
    I need to purchase an 80 or 100 gallon kettle, natural gas, tdo with tri-clover flange, tilting.
    Which heats faster, Groen or Cleveland?

    Which gets hotter?

    Durability?

    Ease of cleaning?

    Which is better engineered?
    Which has better heat thru put?

  • fixbear - ADK NY

    Member
    March 10, 2019 at 1:21 pm

    They are both good units.  What you can get for service in your area counts more than anything you mentioned.  Heating capacity relates to BTU’s or KW input.   All kettles are limited to 15 PSI steam pressure due to boiler codes which relates to the design temperature.  Roughly 250F. 

  • ectofix - Nashville

    Member
    March 10, 2019 at 7:26 pm

    fixbear wrote:

     

    All kettles are limited to 15 PSI steam pressure due to boiler codes which relates to the design temperature.  Roughly 250F. 

     

    I’m sorry fixbear, but that’s incorrect. 

     

    Most self-contained Cleveland kettles are rated to 50 psi – which translates to 298°F.  The relief valve only blows off at that pressure.

    Where I work, we have several Cleveland kettles operating on live steam that are rated to 100 psi.  Those are a different animal, though.

     

    Anyway, I did a very quick, two minute search on the internet.  The 100 gl gas-heated Groen unit I came up with is only rated to a max of 30 psi (274°F):

    https://unifiedbrands.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/gas-model-ah-1.pdf 

     

    The Cleveland counterpart is a 50 psi vessel:

    https://www.clevelandrange.com/asset/?id=zrzfi&regions=us&prefLang=en 

     

    The Groen is rated at 145K Btu, while the Cleveland is rated up to 190K.

     

    Although the Cleveland is $10,000 more in initial cost – as a technician, I’m convinced that the Cleveland kettle is a better investment.  It’s more heftily built, offers greater heat output and (from my experience) is built to be more resilient to a wet working environment it will be exposed to since everything in the gas train is better protected from it.

    (I’m sorry, Groen)

     

    One caveat (besides the sizable price difference):

    While BOTH are fine with a standard 115v, 15a electrical outlet for control power – the Cleveland kettle requires a 3/4″ gas connection while the Groen only needs a 1/2″ source.  That’s obviously due to the difference in their heat output capabilities.

  • ectofix - Nashville

    Member
    March 10, 2019 at 7:56 pm

    BTW:  I suggest that wayninsky shouldn’t consider my suggestion to be conclusive and should consult with the manufacturers and dealerships for possibly more accurate info and guidance.

     

    BTW#2: Although I’m a tech, I’m no longer a field service tech.  I work in-house now, so I can offer advice from a user’s perspective.  When I was a field service tech, I wasn’t permitted to offer recommendations on what a customer should buy.

  • fixbear - ADK NY

    Member
    March 11, 2019 at 7:36 am

    Your looking at design pressure. Always a lot higher than operating pressure.  I was referring to operating pressure.  Many states have rules on steam that are very restrictive. Heck, I live in one of the worst  New York!  Over 15 Psi requires a state inspection annually and a lot of paper work and log’s.  Not something a commercial kitchen want’s to get involved with.  Besides, the internal of the kettle will not get above boiling as all kettle cooking is wet.  If you get the surface too hot you’ll spend a lot of time cleaning and have a off flavor product. 

     

    The big thing I see is the percentage that the steam jacket goes up the side of the kettle.  Higher means more heat transfer,  but requires a full kettle to prevent scorch.  Lower means less contactarea with the heat, but more flexibility with recipes.and quantities. 

     

    I also prefer Cleveland for build quality.  But I also prefer separate steam supply.  whether house steam or a steam generator. After all, the kettle rarely dies, but the steam source does.  And replacing a steam generator is a lot less than a whole kettle.

     

    Oh, don’t be sorry for what is truth or you believe.  I can handle a bit of criticism.  My wife tells me I’m wrong all the time.

  • olivero

    Member
    March 12, 2019 at 9:11 am

    We use Cleveland where I work.

     

    They are good, I’ve never worked on a Groen so I don’t know but the above points are valid, there is no 15 PSI maximum in Florida, though or 2 compartment steamer only does 5 PSI of steam but that’s what it’s designed for. The kettle runs up to 50 PSI then the blow-off valve opens.

     

    I hate working on them if they are close to something else, because you kind of need to remove the side cover to get to the electrical compartment where all the goodies are, if it’s up close to something on the left, you’ll have to move it or pull the panels of seperately.

     

    Gas valves is the main issue I have, that and Potentiometers and heat/low water indicator lights. oh, and the spring that supports the lid. all things I would keep on hand.

  • ryantruck9

    Member
    March 12, 2019 at 11:38 am

    I find the replacement parts for Groen expensive especially when you get into their larger kettles.

    In my market nobody locally stocks very much OEM parts for Groen/Unified brands 

    where as Cleveland is often in service trucks and parts warehouses 

     

    I would suggest having dealers quote you on both brands then do a little homework about who does the warranty service in your market,  who stocks the parts, and compare replacement part costs

     

    nothing worse than having a work horse like an 80/100 gal kettle down for 1-2 weeks waiting for parts.

     

    Good luck with your purchase

  • joenicholsonj

    Member
    March 12, 2019 at 11:43 am

    The Cleveland Kettle offers a double pass forced air/gas mixture power burner which is more efficient and is faster than the Groen design.  Its like putting a turbo on a car engine.  The double pass increases the efficiency and reduces the flue temperature, putting more energy into the product.  I am the Senior Product Sales Manage for Cleveland and have talked to end users who confirm the speed and efficiency of the Cleveland.  Please see my answers below…

  • rico

    Member
    March 14, 2019 at 11:32 am

    @The distinction with operating pressure is wether the kettles use a boiler base or are self contained. Boiler base units operate in a 7 to 10 lb range with the hi limit safety valve at 15 psi. Self contained units, where the burner or heat element are part of the kettle jacket, usually run around 40 psi with a safety valve set at 50 psi. The operating temp you see is usually a condition of the vacuum/pressure in the jacket. 

    I’m sure that there is a company out there somewhere, that makes a unit that will make a liar out of me. But that’s what makes our job so fun. You know, just when you think you’ve seen it all……..

  • rico

    Member
    March 14, 2019 at 11:43 am

    As for which one that I like, they both have their pluses and minuses. Personally I find the Groens’ easier to service. All that I have where I work now is Cleveland units from six gal to eighty gal. It all comes down to budget and utilities. What do they cost and how much to install them. They both will do what you need done,

  • fixbear - ADK NY

    Member
    March 14, 2019 at 12:46 pm

    I tend to agree with that.  Well said!

  • olivero

    Member
    March 14, 2019 at 12:53 pm

    What’s the deal with the little rust spots on the bottom of the kettle, I think it’s from paddles hitting it but how do you fix that?

     

    Considering it’s stainless, it should be healing itself the second the exposed chrome comes in contact with the oxygen, what grade is the stainless? It’s on KGL-100’s.

  • wtrapp

    Member
    March 18, 2019 at 12:10 pm

    I am the Product Line Specialist – Cooking (Groen).  Please see below and hope this helps.

    Which would you recommend, a Groen or Cleveland kettle? I would recommend the Groen (DH-100).  Cleveland does not offer a 100-gallon tilting kettle that i am aware of.  They do offer a 100-gallon stationary kettle which I will reference for these questions since it is the kettle being used for this discussion.

    I need to purchase an 80 or 100-gallon kettle, natural gas, tdo with tri-clover flange, tilting.

    Which heats faster, Groen or Cleveland?  Groen, due to its 360,000 Btu rating versus Cleveland’s 190,000 Btu rating.  Groen will bring 33F water to a boil in 20 minutes.

    Which gets hotter?  They are both 50psi kettles but they operate at approximately 45psi.  At 45psi, both models with reach a max temperature of 287F.

    Durability?  Groen, with its reinforced bar rim, IPX6 water wash down related controls and the fact that it is approximately 300 lbs. heavier than the Cleveland model.

    Ease of cleaning?  Groen.  Groen’s interior is finished using a 180 emery grit sanding process which actually removes metal making the interior less porous versus Cleveland’s interior finished with a bead blasting process that mostly cleans the interior.  https://www.guyson.com/guyson-blast-blogs/blast-media-and-applications/cosmetic-finishing-by-bead-blasting/   Also, the Groen has a mirrored exterior polish (equal to a #7 high buff polish versus Cleveland’s #4 finish.  Groen’s reinforced bar rim is much easier to clean than Cleveland’s rolled rim.

    Which is better engineered?  Groen 

    •      Controls are away from intense heat areas.
    •      Controls are electronic with an extremely tight temperature variance (+/-2F).
    •      Controls are IPX6 water wash down rated versus Cleveland’s “splash proof controls”.
    •      Single trunion design which tilts the kettle within its own footprint.
    •      Butterfly pouring lip provides the narrowest pour path in the industry
    •      All floor models have a 316 stainless steel interior as standard.
    •      Manufactured in the U.SA., not Canada.

    Which has better heat thru put?  Groen with its 360,000 Btu’s.

     

    Ectofix – Anyway, I did a very quick, two-minute search on the internet.  The 100 gal gas-heated Groen unit I came up with is only rated to a max of 30 psi (274°F):  You pulled up the AH stationary kettle.  This discussion is about a tilting kettle.  Try the link below for the DH-100 that is a 50psi rated tilting kettle.

    http://unifiedbrands.dhchicagostagingtwo.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/gas-tilting-kettle-model-dh-100-1.pdf

     

    https://unifiedbrands.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/gas-model-ah-1.pdf

    The Cleveland counterpart is a 50 psi vessel:

     

    https://www.clevelandrange.com/asset/?id=zrzfi&regions=us&prefLang=en

    The Groen is rated at 145K Btu, while the Cleveland is rated up to 190K.  Groen’s DH-100 is rated at 360,000 Btu

     

    Although the Cleveland is $10,000 more in initial cost – as a technician, I’m convinced that the Cleveland kettle is a better investment.  It’s more heftily built, Groen’s kettle weighs approximately 300 lbs. more than the Cleveland offers greater heat output and (from my experience) Groen’s kettle is rated at 360,000 Btu versus Cleveland’s at 190,000 Btu (almost twice as much) is built to be more resilient to a wet working environment it will be exposed to since everything in the gas train is better protected from it.  Groen’s gas train is behind the kettle, not under it and the controls are IPX6 water-washdown rated.

    (I’m sorry, Groen) All good

     

    While BOTH are fine with a standard 115v, 15a electrical outlet for control power – the Cleveland kettle requires a 3/4″ gas connection while the Groen only needs a 1/2″ source.  That’s obviously due to the difference in their heat output capabilities.  Incorrect.  The DH-100 requires a 1” gas connection, obviously due to the difference in heat output capabilities.

    Fixbear –   I also prefer Cleveland for build quality.  Please reference the build quality above.  But I also prefer separate steam supply.  whether house steam or a steam generator. After all, the kettle rarely dies, but the steam source does.  And replacing a steam generator is a lot less than a whole kettle.

    Ectofix – BTW:  I suggest that wayninsky shouldn’t consider my suggestion to be conclusive and should consult with the manufacturers and dealerships for possibly more accurate info and guidance.  Great suggestion.

    Additional Groen notables:

    •      10-year hemisphere warranty
    •      Faucet bracket is standard
    •      Standard 3/4” rim mounted water fill faucet
    •      Electrically driven worm gear tilt of kettle body for pouring and cleaning is standard

     

    Joenicholson – Referencing the incorrect Groen model.  wayninsky is asking for a tilting kettle.  I see your chart has Cleveland and Crown listed.  Aren’t they the same kettle?  Groen’s trunnions are grease-able as well.  

     

    This is a very interesting discussion from many different industry views and experiences.

     

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