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  • Garland 3-13 H

     canderson updated 2 years, 5 months ago 4 Members · 54 Posts
  • guest

    Member
    November 20, 2017 at 12:00 am

    Hi. I have a Garland 3 burner gas stove, model No. 3-3 H. I am looking to restore it and would like information on it such as the year it was made, how it was supposed to look, color, etc. I am not finding any information on it anywhere. Any information will be much appreciated. Thank you in advance

  • canderson

    Member
    November 20, 2017 at 12:28 pm

    Oops, The model number is No. 3-13 H NOT 3-3 H. Just to clarify.

  • fixbear - ADK NY

    Member
    November 20, 2017 at 2:25 pm

    How old do you think it may be.  I don’t see anything like what you describe,  But if you could provide a picture of it we may find something.  also how about configuration.  Like 3 in line and overall width or is it a 3 ring burner or a hot top. Any oven?  Or strictly a table top?

  • canderson

    Member
    November 20, 2017 at 5:32 pm

    Hi, from what I jave been able to find out, the 3 means it was made in

    March, the 13 is the year making it March of 1913. Not sure about the H.

    Guessing here, it could be the Model or the 8th one made that month.

  • canderson

    Member
    November 20, 2017 at 5:34 pm

    one other thing, while I’m thinking of it, all of the Garlands I have seen

    arw cream and sage green or cream and gray in color. I’m thinking this one

    was painted black.

  • canderson

    Member
    November 20, 2017 at 5:45 pm

    Also, I found a Michigan Stove Company catalog at the Michigan State

    Library in Lansing. I called and spoke with a gal requesting info on the

    catalog.  She is looking into it, but it will take a few days to get back

    ro me. The book is dated 1928, so hopefully it will be in there.

  • fixbear - ADK NY

    Member
    November 21, 2017 at 4:15 am

    If it is that old, what fuel does it use.  Coal?  Wood?  or coal gas?  That was before natural gas and electrification.

     

    Now the big question,  Is this a heating stove?

  • ectofix - Nashville

    Member
    November 21, 2017 at 5:28 am

    FWIW:

    In the world of modern day restaurant equipment, I can’t think of a single manufacturer who uses part of their “model” number to encode when their equipment was made, since a model number may be used for many years without changing.

    On the other hand, SOME (but not all) manufacturers might make some part of their serial number as an indicator of its manufactured date.

     

    Could you please post some pictures of your stove?   That might be helpful for getting help identifying it and…because this sounds interesting. 

  • canderson

    Member
    November 21, 2017 at 7:00 am

    It’s natural gas.

  • canderson

    Member
    November 21, 2017 at 7:28 am

    Please let me know if the photos went through.

  • canderson

    Member
    November 21, 2017 at 7:28 am

    The stove could very well pre-date the serial number/manufacture date

    theory. It has been painted black and I am unable to find any indication as

    to the original color. Hopefully the photos will go through.

  • fixbear - ADK NY

    Member
    November 21, 2017 at 7:52 am

    Carol,  you have to click the camera in the menu bar to post a picture.

  • canderson

    Member
    November 21, 2017 at 7:57 am

    I don’t have that option. I sent it as an attachment.

  • canderson

    Member
    November 21, 2017 at 8:06 am

    Nothing came through as attachments?

  • canderson

    Member
    November 21, 2017 at 8:30 am

    I am on my Mobile phone. My options are attachments and send. I try to

    start a blog page and see if that will work. The three dots give me save

    draft, add from contacts…

  • fixbear - ADK NY

    Member
    November 21, 2017 at 8:33 am

    Hit reply or reply to original question. Then a action bar comes up above where you can type.  It’s shaded with type, quotes, format, links and camera. the 3 dots are more options. Click the camera and it will ask for the location of the image and provide a name for it.

     

    Stoves in that time frame were either stove black or ceramic coated.  Like what you refereed to as white and sage.  They also didn’t use model number back then because there was no options.  They called them a name instead..  Like Art garland,  or Jewel.   Michigan stove made a lot of different stoves before selling to wellbilt.  In the time period your talking about they made a lot of stoves for shipboard use.under the Garland name.

  • fixbear - ADK NY

    Member
    November 21, 2017 at 9:35 am

    Related image

    1921

  • canderson

    Member
    November 21, 2017 at 9:52 am

    Ok, the 1921 stove is too new. Mine is missing the shelf. The door is correct, there are 3 burners, the controls are evenly spaced along the front, white ceramic teardrop shaped. Legs seem correct. The sides are straight. Mine has no extra heating spaces on the left.

  • canderson

    Member
    November 21, 2017 at 11:11 am

  • canderson

    Member
    November 21, 2017 at 11:21 am

  • canderson

    Member
    November 21, 2017 at 11:25 am

  • canderson

    Member
    November 21, 2017 at 11:28 am

  • fixbear - ADK NY

    Member
    November 21, 2017 at 1:31 pm

    Your 3-13H is just a casting number for that model. top deck.  Get a good close up of the emblem.  That will narrow down the year.  What is the writing on the oven door top.  I believe it may be your model.

     

    Burner design is another clue to year. .

  • fixbear - ADK NY

    Member
    November 21, 2017 at 2:54 pm

    It seems that they named them ___-Garland.  Check out the Mag  https://archive.lib.msu.edu/DMC/sliker/msuspcsbs_gars_michiganst5/msuspcsbs_gars_michiganst5.pdf

  • canderson

    Member
    November 21, 2017 at 3:10 pm

    Thank you for finding and sharing that article. I saw those stoves are for

    coal and wood. Mine is a natural gas stove. What is the date of the

    article? I did not see a date, just a Vol II No. 6. Those might predate

    mine.

  • ectofix - Nashville

    Member
    November 21, 2017 at 5:08 pm

    If anyone would know how to get results, fixbear does!

     

    That stove is so cool!  It’s no wonder you want to restore it.  I spent a little time on the web using various search parameters to find a forum on the topic.  It’s amazing how little there is available.  I saw references to the Antique Stove Hospital, but he’s more of a service to repair old stoves vs a forum for enthusiasts.  You might want to read what he says, though.

     

    So…you’re in Minnesota and I’m in Tennessee.  I can’t figure out an economical way for you could bring me that stove in trade for my dilapidated old 1955 GE refrigerator.  I’ll keep thinking about that and let you know how we can pull this off…

  • canderson

    Member
    November 21, 2017 at 7:17 pm

    The oven door.

  • canderson

    Member
    November 21, 2017 at 7:23 pm

    Top of the oven door. All three parts of the handle are wooden.All three parts of the handle are wooden.

  • canderson

    Member
    November 21, 2017 at 7:31 pm

    View from the top. The far left burner is larger with the same decorative pattern. The three control handles are ceramic and located directly in front of the burners. 

  • canderson

    Member
    November 21, 2017 at 7:39 pm

    Front view of the burner controls. The piece that attaches the ceramic handle to the rest of the plumbing appears to be brass.

  • canderson

    Member
    November 21, 2017 at 7:48 pm

    This photo shows the nut on the left front of the stove is maybe cast iron, molded, or some kind of decorative nut. There is one on each side of; the stove facing the front. Not sure what the molded area with the hole is. Maybe for an attachment to the stove? 

  • canderson

    Member
    November 21, 2017 at 7:56 pm

    This shows how the door is hinged. The front outside piece is molded to catch and support the door when it is opened. Also, it shows the curved feet and how they are attached. To the right of the door support is what appears to be a spot weld.

  • canderson

    Member
    November 21, 2017 at 8:08 pm

    This shows the molded turnkeys that slide the metal flat bar up or down to divert the flame to have either a broiler or an oven. Towards the top left of the photo, another spot weld is faint, but visible. Not sure why the turn key is wired…it will be removed soon.

  • canderson

    Member
    November 21, 2017 at 8:22 pm

    The back of the stove. It appears that the vent is attached using spot welds. The sides and back are tin/sheet metal and attached together using spot welds. The top and feet are cast iron as is the top of the vent. The gas fitting on the left is rounded on the end and may be a new brass replacement piece. I will send more photos if needed. 

     

    There is a space under the burners with a removable pan I assume is a drip pan.

  • fixbear - ADK NY

    Member
    November 22, 2017 at 8:34 am

    I provided the Garland magazine just to demonstrate how the determined models prior to 1929. I found it in Detroit historical library. I did not branch out into Michigan, Chicago, or Buffalo historical sites  Note; search engines on these sites are ineffective.  You  have to go through each piece.  Note that the cards have stoves on the back.  The Garland mag that I put up is volume 2 number 6.  Meaning it was the second year for it.  It was printed from 1894 to 1896. .

     

    The ability to weld didn’t come in till the thirties.  Those are screws that the slot filled in with rust before the last blackening or the head rusted away.  Is the oven handle wood or more cast? 

     

    Broiler valve wired means that the burner is probably damaged and no longer safely functioned.. 

     

    At some point in her past she was outside for quite a while.  Looks like someone did a lot of prying near the broiler valve to tear open the side. Probably in a attempt to repair the broiler.  .

     

    Now the lower hinge.  Anyone who has spent time in a kitchen with a stove like this knows what that hole is for. I spent a lot of time with my grandmother in the early 50’s turning butter and watching her cook with a wood fired stove that had a jockey tank on the side and warming bins on top. The screech of the oven door opening would chill your spine. I drop of oil or grease in the hole made it quiet.

  • canderson

    Member
    November 23, 2017 at 10:38 am

    The Garland magazine was a great reference. I enjoyed reading through it and liked how they named the stoves. Thank you for that.

     

    Regarding the welding. Welding history goes back to 4000 B.C.. Edmund Davy from England discovered acetylene welding in 1836. Elihu Thompson had Resistance Spot Weld (RSW) patents from 1885-1900.    I questioned the spot welds until I found out about Elihu Thompson.

          According to the Miller Manufacturing Company, C.J Holslag invented alternating current welding in 1919, “however it did not become popular until the 1930s when the heavy-coated electrode found widespread use”.  (Credit the Miller Manufacturing Company)

     

    I contacted the person from whom I purchased the stove. She bought it from an 80-something year old gentleman whose family used to stove to heat an old farmhouse up until she bought it from him. She stated that the family winters in Arizona and she will be contacting the neighbors and the family to get a better history as to where the stove came from. Apparently the family had the stove for many years. I will update the story when I receive new information. 

     

    The holes on the front for oiling is awesome! After I wrote about the attachment theory, I thought it would be hard to open the door with an attachment blocking the way….

     

    There are three parts to the handle. All three are wooden. I will see if I can get a different view of the handle.

     

    I will check out the screws again and see if the other end of them is visible. And I will take the wire off and see if I can find any damage, etc.

     

    A few questions: Why are the legs so short on this stove? Was it a prototype? Is it for an apartment or a ship?

     

    My intention for this stove is to restore it to its original working condition and have it installed professionally so I can use it.

     

    Fixbear, every time you post, another idea pops up, I find more resources, and this little stove’s story gets more detailed. I really appreciate all you are doing to find out what it is. Thank you!

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

  • canderson

    Member
    November 23, 2017 at 10:41 am

    One other question: Why are there no other photos of this stove anywhere? IF this was mass produced, there should be A photo out there somewhere…

  • fixbear - ADK NY

    Member
    November 23, 2017 at 12:45 pm

    Agreed and frustrating at the same time. Like you said, it was most likely a prototype. Gas never got popular in homes till the 30’s.  It would never been on a ship because it was gas. Pressurized gas was illegal on a vessel until just recently.  Steamships were coal fired at the time. Remember that a ship is a live item that is constantly flexing and moving. Everything would be made to bolt down and there was no suitable flex lines for gas service that would be safe and reliable.  Shipboard ranges that I have seen had a raised edge to prevent a pot from sliding off in rough weather.

     

    Being that it wasn’t a patented product like the wood and coal stoves  ie: the emblem,  it is a hard one to find anything on.  I think historical societies in Buffalo,  Chicago, Detroit, and Michigan are your best bet,  There are libraries that have items,  But want $40 dollars per day to view them.

    .  .

    As for the height of the stove, people were shorter in that time frame  A tall man was 5′ 8′.  Most women about 5 ft.  Pots were mostly cast iron and heavy.  You didn’t want to lift them to high.

  • fixbear - ADK NY

    Member
    November 23, 2017 at 1:12 pm

    canderson wrote:

    Regarding the welding. Welding history goes back to 4000 B.C.. Edmund Davy from England discovered acetylene welding in 1836. Elihu Thompson had Resistance Spot Weld (RSW) patents from 1885-1900.    I questioned the spot welds until I found out about Elihu Thompson.

    Yes,  but that was forge welding and not practical for manufacturing.  Gas welding with acetylene was not economical nor well acepted until Oxygen cylinders and reliable safe gas regulators became available.  Early torches were a glass water tank that dropped carbide crystals into the water with a diaphragm to monitor the pressure and control the drop.  Air acetylene torches were not hot enough for welding, only brazing.

    I will check out the screws again and see if the other end of them is visible. And I will take the wire off and see if I can find any damage, etc.

    The thing to look at is inside.  Is the burner intact without cracks, is the nozzle and carburetor ok, Is the flame impingement area sound or eroded away from flame.

    My intention for this stove is to restore it to its original working condition and have it installed professionally so I can use it.

     You may have a bit of a time making new nozzles for the gas. Not something you can find off the shelf.  Interesting that the air shutters are the same as today’s.

  • canderson

    Member
    November 25, 2017 at 9:08 am

    I have to chuckle, I am getting quite an education from a simple purchase of a vintage stove! Major Kudos on the ship and welding history! 

     

    Regarding the spot welding, when did Garland begin using spot welding in their manufacturing process?

     

    I took off the wire, the turnkey mechanisms work easily and properly switching from broiler to oven.

     

    The end of the screws look like screw ends. The threads are visible and clear. I could not get a good photo of the ends.

     

    Thank you again for the history, it certainly helps in eliminating the “could be” theories. 🙂

  • fixbear - ADK NY

    Member
    November 25, 2017 at 11:30 am

    Carol, I’ve been very fortunate to have the background I have.  In the early years i lived on a family farm without power and we cooked, heated with wood and coal. Oil lamps.   My dad started as a mechanic for the first bus company in NY state (My Grandfathers) and then went to work as a fixer for Mohawk Carpet.  He later was foreman of the experimental lab where he built the first stitch loom that is used today for carpet making.  On the side he built machines for others special purpose’s like crop dusters and other farming tools.  He involved me in projects when I was 5. In a rural community neighbors were always bring items to be fixed.  I started working in my sophomore year part time and ever since.   Joined the navy and got a total of 10 schools that gave me even greater background.   From 1970 on I have been building and repairing all forms of equipment. from draw bridges  Machine tools, And even special handling tools for a bank on down.   Moved to food service after a bout with a bad virus that limited my physical abilities a bit. At one time I held 11 special licsene’s till the cost of renewals went through the roof. (NYS trying to balance a budget)  I also taught welding on the side for a distributor to GE  welding engineers.

     

    So I geuss I’m considered a jack of all trades. But I also have mastered them. It’s been a fun life for sure.

  • fixbear - ADK NY

    Member
    November 25, 2017 at 11:38 am

    The one thing you never showed us was the interior of the stove.  Especially the broiler burner. That would be very interesting for sure.  Broiler designs have changed a lot over the years and I would love to see a real early one.

  • canderson

    Member
    November 28, 2017 at 8:33 am

    Hi, I am on the road and will be home later this week.

  • canderson

    Member
    December 11, 2017 at 3:22 pm

    Oven

  • canderson

    Member
    December 11, 2017 at 3:24 pm

    Hi, Looking at the top of the inside of the oven, looks just like the back. A solid piece of tin. 

  • canderson

    Member
    December 11, 2017 at 3:32 pm

    Fixbear,  I can only imagine the great things you have learned from your dad and experience in the Navy and schools. It is nice to read about dads spending time with their kids.l It is truly remarkable how much kids learn from their dads as well as work ethic. I hope you write a book on your experiences. 😉

  • canderson

    Member
    December 11, 2017 at 3:39 pm

  • canderson

    Member
    December 11, 2017 at 3:46 pm

    The holes on all of the burners are open and clear. My kid blew smoke into the end of them and they are clear.

  • fixbear - ADK NY

    Member
    December 11, 2017 at 4:02 pm

    Is this the broiler or oven burner.  Regardless, most of the holes are pluged and will have to be drilled out. A lot of the burner center has been eroded away.  The fact that the burner is part of the main casting is amazing.

  • fixbear - ADK NY

    Member
    December 11, 2017 at 4:10 pm

    Ok Carol, The broiler burner is at the top of the oven behind the top frount door seal and higher that the door face.  Basically to see it one has to get at the bottom of the dor heal and look up.

     

    When I say drill out the burner holes,  Not with a power drill, but with a drill vice.  Commonly fornd at a welding supplier at a Tip Cleaner. It will come with many different size drill bits in the handle.  Find the one close to a open hole and open all the others.  The drill bit by hand will easily cut carbon and not hurt the cast.

  • canderson

    Member
    December 21, 2017 at 10:04 am

    Hi, none of the holes are plugged, it is just the angle of the camera.

  • canderson

    Member
    December 21, 2017 at 10:16 am

    I had my son blow smoke through the pieces, all holes are open.

  • fixbear - ADK NY

    Member
    December 23, 2017 at 9:05 am

    You still should clean out each hole to insure even flame tips.  They tend to get carbon and rust scale inside that will make them uneven. Any reduced flow will make back pressure to the carburetor and can make a back flow that is dangerous.  The burner and metering nozzle are a precise match.  So much so that at different altitudes some burners have to be tweaked.

  • canderson

    Member
    December 23, 2017 at 9:18 pm

    OK, that makes sense. will do.

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