True T-23 nNot Cooling At All

[olivero]

what about the TXV, filters? Anything on those, is it cold coming out of the compressor, hot coming out? Liquid side, suction side? Etc. Anything?

 

Is any pipe coming out of the compressor hot at all?

[ectofix]

I’m seeing two very important steps you may have missed:

Identifying and repairing the leak There’s no point in recharging it if it’s going to leak back out Doing a proper system evacuation A refrigeration system must not have any air in it. 

 

As for the “venting to the atmosphere” part that you’d said?  Thanks to the Montreal Protocol and subsequent EPA regulations, that’s very illegal.  The ONLY refrigerants that can be vented are hydrocarbons refrigerants (R290 and such)…and THAT is only due to a recent revision in EPA’s rulings.

 

So…just so you know.  I suggest that you NOT admit to doing that on an open forum.  Maybe you should REDACT your post here?

 

Now, regarding your problem.  It’s unlikely that the compressor is at fault, but only a proper diagnosis can prove that.  I suggest that you call a technician with the proper training, knowledge, tools, materials and test equipment to do so.

Buying a bottle of R134A from Walmart, squirting it in there and then asking folks on the internet why it’s not working – isn’t going to solve your problem.

[clintster442]

I intend on repairing the leak if there is one, however I want to identify and solve the cooling issue first.  I don’t want to introduce a sealer into the system unless it’s absolutely necessary.  It was at 85 psi prior to recharging and it held 85 psi for over 4 days after so I don’t believe a leak is actually the issue.

 

And by “venting to atmosphere”, im saying I vented the refrigerant to a holding tank to 0 psi, or atmospheric pressure; no vaccum and no pressure.  I obviously did not release refrigerant into the air however I can see where my verbiage could suggest that, my apologies.  I don’t have a vacuum pump so I’m unable to take the pressure down to 30″# before refillIng.

 

With respect, I was under the impression that asking for help was the exact purpose of this forum.  I have no issues calling a technician but personally, I’d prefer to do the work myself if I can and learn useful knowledge and skills along the way.  I have replaced the refrigerant in cooling systems in the past successfully which I why I tried that option on this unit.  When that did not solve my issue, I came to this tech help forum in search of technical help.  If the solution is beyond my ability or knowledge, I’ll call a technician.  But if there is a simple solution or diagnosis, I’d prefer to tackle it myself.

[clintster442]

Is there a preferred way to test the expansion valve?  All filters and coils are clean and free of debris. 

 

Both the suction and liquid lines of the compressor are room temp, neither is hot or cold.  Other than the compressor itself warming up, none of the lines coming from or going to the compressor change temp at all.

[olivero]

Jeeeesus.

 

Allright, here’s the deal. Venting to atmosphere is illegal, ataboy on not doing that, I near wrote it myself that it was illegal but figured you did something like what you wrote so no worries.

 

Here is the other deal, if the system is not pulled down correctly, and not vacuumed properly you run into things like humidity and air being in the system. If the system had a leak and sat somewhere forever and just collected god knows what into the piping you would not do much by adding refrigerant.

 

BUT, here is a question, did the weight of your refrigerant bottle change when you squirted some in?

 

Secondly, a vacuum pulled below 500 (i think) microns is the best way to check for leaks BUT taken the circumstances, I got ya. SO, back to the TXV and solving the problem. If your TXV is 10000000% plugged, there is no refrigerant circulating so you won’t have a temp difference on anything BUT the compressor should be comitting suicide trying to pump it through so is the compressor getting really hot? It should also affect your pipe temps as they should be getting hotter as your liquid line is pressurizing due to the compressor trying to push the refrigerant along but it ain’t going.

 

Hmm. hmm. hmm……… hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

 

Yup, that’s what I got for my next question, and this site is for helping you solve your problem, I do understand Ectofixe’s reaction to your ludacris statement of releasing refrigerant, that boils the blood on any of us EPA certified people given it was just a misduplication i think everyone is happy again so lets try to solve this.

[alnelson]

Whoa slow down here

 

134a with 75 psi suction while compressor is running?

 

Sounds like an inefficient compressor to me.

 

And for what it’s worth a T23 comes from the factory with a cap tube and not a txv.

[clintster442]

I recharged the unit with 10 oz of R134a by weight using a digital scale.  I weighed the can prior to recharging and periodically during the process by removing the fill house and gauges to keep an accurate weight.  I had to warm the can with a heat gun slightly to increase the pressure in the can to push the whole 10 oz but it did take the full charge.  The max pressure rating on the can of R134a was 170 psi and it pushed into the unit around 85 psi so I stayed well below the pressure limit.

 

I have tested for leaks in the past using roughly 100 psi of nitrogen but didn’t have it available this time ( my gas tank was filled with Argon/CO2 for mig welding).  The fact that the unit held the 85 psi of freon for four days leads me to believe that it isn’t a leak issue, or if it is, its a very, very slow leak. 

 

I have not removed the TXV to check for a blockage but the compressor doe snot over heat nor do the lines coming from the compressor get hot.  The compressor warms to about 140* (laser thermometer) and stays there as is doesn’t shut off since it’s not cooling.

 

I am at a loss on this one as nothing is glaringly wrong.  My next step at this point is to get a vacuum pump and try to recharge the system again under a perfect vacuum.  

[clintster442]

That’s what I thought.  75 psi is way too high which is what made me think the compressor is bad.  I think it may be the butterfly valve in the head but obviously no way to know for sure. 

[olivero]

Well, if it aint got a TXV, I would be looking at your compressor like you already figured. Could be a clogged filter too that might be giving you a headache. If it was me, I would replace the filter first and recharge under perfect conditions, make sure you triple evacuate and get all the nasty stuff out. When you cut into the system and remove the filter, you can try to blow through it and if you feel air, it was not that and you know its gotta be your compressor.

[fixbear]

What you are saying is that the compressor is not moving gas. Either it is not starting and running or the cylinder heads have holes blown though them from a liquid slug at recharge. It is not likely that two valves broke in the compressor, sooo- Check the running current on the compressor to see if it is locked up or has a start control problem.

      If you see a high amp reading and drop to zero, the compressor  is not starting. It is tripping the overload Klixon out and you need to check ohm readings on the winding’s and check the capacitor. and relay..

     If you see a high amp draw that immediately drops to a low reading, you can condemn the compressor because it is running but not pumping.

Any other condition like blocked cap tube or the non-existent TXV or low charge or non-condensables would not present without a drop in pressure on the suction side. After all guy’s, if the compressor was pumping the suction would drop as it condensed gas in the condenser, feed system  and dryer.

 

     As for the box temp rising, it is caused by the fans in the evaporator and lighting inside the box adding heat an no cooling.in progress.