Your thoughts: do they make things like they used to?

[izzygreen]

I’ve seen equipment that has lasted 40-60 years in like new condition, but that is usually in a facility that the owner is hands on and the employees take pride in maintaining their machines.

 

I work mainly on electrical and mechanical items, and have found that age does not matter if the machine is used the way it was designed

 

 I’ve found that the more solid state electronics that gets installed the greater chance there is for equipment failure. Also manufacturing of mechanical parts seems to have declined in quality unless the client is willing to pay for OEM and even then I’ve run into plenty of lemons.

 

Just my thoughts in my 12 years of doing this

[john]

 

 I’ve found that the more solid state electronics that gets installed the greater chance there is for equipment failure. Also manufacturing of mechanical parts seems to have declined in quality unless the client is willing to pay for OEM and even then I’ve run into plenty of lemons.

I’ve found this to be true as well. Electronics just cannot stand up to the rigors of the kitchen as well as non electronic counterparts.

[fixbear]

I have a customer with a Hobart reach in from early 60’s and another with a Glenco from mid fiftys. also one with a masterbuilt range from 60’s. oftem see older vulcan and Blodget ranges from 60’s and 70’s. Then I have a walk in customer that dates from the forties.Redo of the door gaskets is a stapler and rubber cord on a wooden door. Old 3 door Federal freezer case from 50’s. Just had a customer replace his reach in Mohawk freezer ice cream case after 70 years of service. I don’t think that the Master bilt will last 20.

 

   As for replacement parts, The older Tecumseh, Frigidaire, and GE compressors lasted a lot longer than todays units do. Of course we used to see a lot of the Copeland hermetic units, but are rare now because of cost. In low temp they were the only ones that lasted. Controls have gotten more reliable. The new refrigerants have caused a lot of problems with suction pressure control, but the electronic gauges have helped a lot. Leak detection with a H10 is a lot better than the old Halite torch.

 

   As for parts, Motors are built cheaper but more electrical efficient. Older fan motors ran for 20 years, now lucky to get 5, and the cost has gone from 18 to 350. go figure. R12 used to cost me $19 for 30 lb’s. Now refrigerants are packed in 25 lb cans that cost us 400..Of course Obama care added $16.40 per pound. You have to be very careful of crimo on terminals, as the  market is flooded with sub par stuff. Plumbing items often have been made on dies that are out of spec and cause leaks unless one uses the old thread and dope method to  make up.the joint.Gas regulating valves are way better, but control, shutoff are not. Small hardware can be bad out of the box. sloppy workmanship or trying to run the dies to long. Electrical controls like switches and fuse holders have gone downhill a mile. new stuff will not always take the load rating as the old ones. Equipment cases have gotten so light one has to take special care not to damage them on installation, but means easier install…Copper coils are now so thin  and minimum design that one can no long braze a crack. ECDM motors are still to fragile and costly for the power grid. Fractional hp motor @$350 and a power surge wipes it out in 6 months. Old shunt wound used to cost $10 now 40 to 50. PCS fan motors use half the electricity, but cost over $100. ECDM only save 20% over PCS. yet EPA requires them. Just love the EPA. Vacuum pumps would only go down to 1000 microns. Now we have pumps that will pull out to 25 microns and gauges that tell us how deep a vacuum we pulled. Thats’ why you still see “non-condensibles” in the troubleshooting charts.We saw a lot of that before the 80’s and the development of R502 for low temp. Oh yea, I still had a customer that had a R12 low temp freezer 4 years ago. Still have some R401B in the garage.i’ll never use.

[fixbear]

I forgot to mention Solid State. If one gets a solid state machine that works correctly at the beginning, it will usually last for years without a problem. However, if if has a problem from the get go. Lord help you as it will be a problem for a long time. Not sure if it is the Tech or design, but it is what it is, but that’s what I’ve seen. The new digital design motor starters have no way to test but replace. Sucks! And they don’t tolerate anything other than design spec. Lot’s of money to spend to get someone happy. Compressor winding out of spec,  replace. Before we could just bump up or down the run cap and it got years more service. You could tell by listening to the compressor and feeling the vibration if it matched.

[john]

ectofix, I am surprised you haven’t chimed in on this. I’ve watched your Youtube videos on rebuilding the Rational oven and the prosciutto slicer, and I’m betting there was more than one time where you thought to yourself,  “I wish they still did it the old way,” or the opposite.

[olivero]

I am more of a newer generation type guy, at 20 years old I haven’t seem a whole lot of old stuff. I service mainly newer equipment, have had some older stuff but I agree with the electronics. The only thing that all this solid state, fancy schmancy electronics and software is doing, is making it harder to fix it. I rarely ever mess with PCB’s but I have had miracles made working with other co workers to keep things running by soldering in different relays from scrap boards and such but its just so much easier with the mechanical, good ole’ 2PST relays. You can just see if its broken or not.

 

soon its gonna be, “the burner is not firing” Oh, change the firing board……………………… “Igniter is not igniting” Oh, change the ignition board. Takes all the fun out of it.

[fixbear]

actually electronics have made ice machines easier to troubleshoot and require less time troubleshooting. Just some manufacturers don’t fully test their design.

 

   Then you have the ultra fast aging of design of components. By the time a board is built it is already obsolete. I had a manufacturer that told me the board was no longer available, so I tracked down a chip in Russia. They buy all of the electronic parts that go obsolete and mark them up. Cost me 400 for a 12 dollar chip, but it was better than $10,000 for a repaired board. I also had to repair traces on the board.

 

   The other real pain about electronics is if they are exposed to chemical fumes. Especially ammonia, but some sanitizers and cleaners too..

[olivero]

Its true., in some cases its made part of it better. The board I soldered a new relay onto was a Scotsman board, the condenser fan would not turn on because the relay was shot.

 

Ovens are a great example where electronics has made it difficult, when its just an ignition board, gas valve, igniter etc. The classic “old school” setup. its a lot easier to find the problem. When there is some feature not working that is part of the software that runs the circuit boards that runs the relays, it gets really tricky to find what’s wrong.

[fixbear]

I forgot to mention, that electronic controls require cooling  for their components. This means heat sinks and cooling fans. The analog controls didn’t care and ran for many years without anyone servicing them. Just the fact that you have a cooling fan with a average life of 2 years in a kitchen means a lot more calls. Grease is always building up on fans and heat sinks.