MemberNovember 21, 2016 at 12:00 am
I am trying to get my OGS 20.20 Combi oven to stop leaking steam and Its driving me nuts.
I have already leveled the unit on 4 different occassions as it would “move” until I made a bracket to keep it in place as I refuse to bolt equipment down unless its 100% needed.
A couple of months back, I leveled it, so its nice and level, door won't close -.- so I check again and readjust it just a bit and the door still wont close so I eyeball the door top level so its closing again but still leaking, adjusted it as good as I could but if I level it so its level, the door won't close……………
A while later I changed the door gasket and it started leaking like crazy a bit after that, I went through the checklist again and ended up adding spacers to bring the glass panel further out and squish on the gasket even more which made it stop at the time. Then I change the door gasket and here we are again, now I want to solve it for good and find the little, stupid, easy fix adjustment that will make it stop.
The door has a glass panel that seals to the door gasket, that's it. Nothing fancy but I can't get it to stop leaking, I went back to war today and took the door off and kicked it a little bit (made me feel better) then I checked both hinge pieces and adjusted them so the door is evenly spaced on the left seam and right seam to the door and they are within Cleveland's specs.
The picture below is after I did that and the gap got better on top but its still not 100% Now the level is telling me to raise the left side which will increase the gap even more so I did not do that.
Here is the unit running. There is steam right around the handle, a little hard to see but its there if you look close
I feel like I made real progress today by bringing the door gap even on both sides which it probably never was and I was too “concerned” to do anything about it, thinking I would mess up the door alignment but today, I figured that its messed up anyways, how much worse can it get? Then the door almost fell of when I loosened a bolt, but I caught it!
Anyways, I could use some help on this, I have followed Cleveland's instructions but they tend to require special tools and gimmicks to check it to a 100% so I am using what I got but I am hoping someone else has an idea of what would do it.
MemberNovember 21, 2016 at 8:15 pm
It's funny, Cleveland is the only manufacturer to have a “measure door opening for squareness” line on their startup forms. I wonder why…
One of our other techs came accross an Electrolux combi that the door wouldn't seal properly. The actual glass took on a pronounced bend to it. Out of warantee, of course.
>SO…so long as I can get the oven door to stop bathing the control panel with steam, I stop right there.
I love the Cleveland double stacked 22cet steamers that will just fry the bejesus out of timers and switches when, not if, the door gasket leaks because the drain is clogged with goo.
MemberNovember 21, 2016 at 10:11 pm
Well, the keyboard did survive and I am still slightly flustered.
After realigning the door -.- it now barely leaks, seems like it leaks whenever the compartment is getting pressurized as when water gets flung at the heat exchanger so its much better, but I feel the handle is grinding a bit, its not a smooth close anymore
Then while I Was working on it, the convotherm 4 oven had a VFD error which is still under warranty… Woooo.
Back to the original issue, There has got to be a way, I am sure if we all 3 put or heads together (or monitors in this case) and try to solve it, we can resolve this chronic steam leaking issue once and for all! (sound inspiring? I am trying)
I do not understand WHY its important the door is gapped properly, it should not change the fact that the rubber pushes on the glass and seals but WHY do I need spacers to push the glass out WHY do I need spacers behind the gasket! Just make the door properly so it doesen't leak!! Man, I get worked up over these things.
I think the whole concept of a unit that tall and a door that big and heavy just introduces way too many variables and its just a matter of finding the correct ones and fixing them. When you ran into it, what did you do?
SO any ideas? Ectofix, Maybe your violinist has an idea?
MemberNovember 22, 2016 at 3:59 am
Well HEY now. Badbozo made me remember something I'd written awhile back for someone (at another forum) about the importance of the drain system in STEAMERS. Probably NOT the solution to your problem, but just food for thought.
I think the quench system setup on your Cleveland combi-oven is like my Rationals by employing a drain box and cycles the condensate (quench) spray based upon temperature in the drain box. You can quickly verify it's working by observing the oven's drainpipe outlet while in STEAM mode. There should be an occasional, relatively heavy and steady flow of water coming from it.
You might've already known of this, but I'm sharing it anyway. Again, this was written in response to a Cleveland steamer question. Of course, in our combi-ovens, the quench system takes on an extended role when paired up with that cavity vent in the TOP of the oven. The quench system draws “humidity” from the cooking compartment to facilitate its fancy feature of supposedly having “infinitely variable humidity control within the cooking climate” 😛
The drain in the cooking cabinet?
Of course, that's where any spills drain to, but more importantly, that's where the incoming steam escapes. Behind the cooking compartment is a drain manifold…kind of an offset T, for lack of my brain thinking of a better name. The compartment's steam escapes down through that T and a water spray nozzle is in the third opening of the T – the top one. While the cooking compartment has steam being fed to it, water is supplied to the water nozzle, which emits a fan-shaped spray pattern inside of the drain manifold. The steam must pass through that, so it therefore condenses harmlessly back into water.
Another term for that little system is the “quench” system. However, it's more commonly called the “condensate” system.
That condensate system water spray is important for two reasons:It prevents wafting clouds of steam from escaping from the steamer‘s drain pipe and condensing all over other stuff – the hood, other equipment or up into the steamer‘s own cabinet enclosure.
HOPEFULLY, the drain pipe doesn't have it draining to a floor drain right underneath itself or other equipment. If it does, then that's a bad installation. It keeps the pressure in the drain pipe just a tad lower than what's inside the cooking compartment. The steam in the compartment will take that path of least resistance, which keeps cooking compartment pressure near atmospheric pressure.
WITHOUT that avenue of persuasion for steam to escape, the steam injected into the cooking compartment will otherwise build up a slight pressure within the compartment. So, when a cook goes to open the door, the steam will likely BLOW the door open with some force when the door latch is released. Kinda alarmingly unpleasant and could hurt someone.
I haven't touch a Cleveland steamer in years, but I think the condensate (or quench) system on theirs runs the entire time that the cook timer is set to cook something. Some other manufacturers employ what's called a “drain box” instead of a mere manifold. Vulcan is one brand that does (or used to do) that. With drain box setups, a dedicated thermostat senses drain box temperature and cycles the condensate water on and off based upon temperature inside the drain box.
If that Cleveland's condensate system isn't working, the water nozzles are probably clogged. Getting them out to clean/replace is a PITA (although maybe not on that one you're looking at) There's another Cleveland floor model model with a vertical boiler standing up BEHIND the cooking compartments. Absolutely NO room there to swing a wrench. I had to buy me a 3/4″ drive socket set and some r-e-a-l-l-y long extensions just for that one particular service call, since THAT was the only tool that could get the nozzles out. Having equally large combination wrenches came in handy too.
MemberNovember 22, 2016 at 4:50 am
>You can quickly verify it's working by observing the oven's drainpipe outlet while in STEAM mode. There should be an >occasional, relatively heavy and steady flow of water coming from it.
Well, yes, but…
>emits a fan-shaped spray pattern inside of the drain manifold.
There's the key. If your orifice/nozzle has worn, or water pressure is reduced, it will no longer be a spray, and just becomes a stream of water down the drain without really quenching the steam. Then you'll start to build up positive pressure in the cabinet, and your locomotive starts pulling away from the station, shooting steam out the easiest available escape route.
A good open drain is essential, with a breaker tee or cup if needed.
For giggles, remove the spray nozzle assembly, and with the hose attached, run it for a little bit and see what the spray pattern looks like. If ok, if possible, remove the drain piping at the machine and run it and see if the door stops leaking. You should not see steam from the drain outlet as it should be quenching.
MemberNovember 22, 2016 at 3:25 pm
Well, now were talking.
There is steam coming out the drain, might be just really hot water butt I definetley see steam when its running.
I am pretty sure it dumps water down, hits the fan and the fan flings it at the heat exchanger. Not sure about a spray pattern, never noticed or heard about it before, nor does it mention in it Clevelands service handbook I found online….
This drain line for some reason does not have a vent, Alto shaam's do and I don't know why they don't but it does not say anything about it in the install manual either.
Your saying steam is not supposed to come out the drain, I have a lot of water coming out with steam, not steam by itself but water that is steaming when it drains out.
MemberNovember 22, 2016 at 4:48 pm
Allright! They have been using the oven pretty much all day and so far, I have yet to see any sign of steam coming out the door…….. I might be delusional or not looking at the right time but its either 100% gone or 95% gone. Looks like realigning the door really did it. Wonder why but seems to have done it.
MemberNovember 22, 2016 at 4:51 pm
>I am pretty sure it dumps water down, hits the fan and the fan flings it at the heat exchanger
That is how your “spritzer” style combi makes steam, as opposed to a boiler style unit.
What we are mentioning is at the bottom inside of the cabinet, there is a drain for water, that leads to a box, off to the side. This box then drains out through whatever drain pipe you have plumbed to it.
And also in this box, is a spray nozzle, that shoots water into the box, and quenches the steam that gets pulled into the box through the cabinet drain pipe.
This produces a condensing effect on the steam, aka quenching, and this condensation of steam into liquid water will actually produce a net vacuum, however slight, that will tend to pull in steam from the cabinet, thus, there should be no steam coming out from the door gasket at all.
>Your saying steam is not supposed to come out the drain, I have a lot of water coming out with steam,
Ideally that water should be, I dunno really, warm, and no steam in vapor form. If there is a bunch of steam coming out, it sounds like it isn't being quenched.
>This drain line for some reason does not have a vent
How long is the run from the combi to the floor drain? And I hope it dumps into a floor drain with no restricions.
MemberNovember 22, 2016 at 4:55 pm
Interesting, never heard of that spray type for the condesner, it makes sense though.
The run is less than 10 feet. I think one is about 4 feet the other is about 8 feet. They are 2 seperate lines that drain into a floor drain but its going down, there is a gap between the bottom of the pipe and the drain itself.
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