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ICEOMATIC ICE0726FR
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olivero- if you read the conversation- yes I believe it has a leak. I was asking how to get the system to “open up” because you can’t just turn it off and recover without manipulating something.
That was my question. what and how—to get it to open and yes- I have a couple of the cps magnets.
Its turning on and off into harvest about every 30 seconds staying on for maybe 10 seconds–condenser fans starts, then goes out. Nothing gets cold- and cap was burned and reading about 1/2 what it should so I thought that was it- but no. pressures- low is about 10, high around 200. When its in harvest- low jumps up around 50- high drops a little- maybe to 180 or so.
That is basically what I started with- what I have- (except cap is new) safeties were bypassed (to check) and put back and I need to get the refrigerant out- and pressure test with nitrogen- you are 100% correct.
Thank you!
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Cool, good to hear.
Is there no pressure taps on the unit?
Do you still need help?
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Your short cycling is either not in ice making mode or low charge and the low pressure cut out (10 lb out and 30 lb in) one the low side after the liquid solenoid. You should have recovered 9 to 11 pounds of R404 if it was fully charged. Remember that it does not go into freeze right away, so it may be in the pump down when you first start it. Monitor the liquid solenoid with a voltmeter to be sure before panicking.
Ice-O-matics are a decent machine. Even though I prefer Hoshizaki or Manitowoc’s. They have merged with Scotsman’s. You want to work on some oddballs, try a Kolddraft, or Zero, The Zero”s had a coil spring that could support a car in them and a round eveporator that banged during harvest enough to shake a building. They were scary when you had to work on them. The Kolddrafts had a horizontal evaporator that had a movable seal plate and 2 holes per cube. The plate came up to the evaporator and the pump sprayed water into the pockets through the one hole and vented through the other. When the pockets were full of ice the Marsh pump would stop, lower plate would drop down at a angle, and hot gas defrosted the sheet to slide down the lower plate just beyond the edge of the sump. The nice thing was they were only 4 ft high and had a nice flat top about 6 ft long and 30 inches wide. Everyone stored glasses or water pictures on them.
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HI Guys—update. So another gas station called and I fixed one in an hour—so I am capable- lol. It was a bad microswitch on that curtain thing. ANYWAY back to the beast. I had to go catch up- and fixed about 10 AC units and a bohn evaporator- and that other iceomatic- so it gave me back a little confidence. I did find the leak- it was a teeny pinhole- right where the low side fitting is attached to the cabinet at the access in front. I undid the little plastic clamps- and as soon as I removed the low side tube PSHHHHHH– the entire unit dumped the 404 into the room- the fire alarms go off, the fire department comes. They were such arrogant idiots—“Uh you have this hazy cloud in here thats why its going off”—no kidding? Then he said we might need a hazmat team–and I said ” Its refrigerant and oil and directly above the roof access is open- the outside door is open- and a fan is going- so it will be gone in a few minutes.” So the guy says “if you do that again it will go off again”—ok thanks for that info- I never would have known. unreal. I replaced that copper tube- new fitting- vacuumed/evacuated system down to like 400 microns, and put in 176oz 404- per spec. The compressor immediately came on- and stayed on- but this unit had a couple issues before the leak. The leak was secondary—it drained the refrigerant slowly and I think coincidently got low enough at the same time the other issue came up–thats what I think. The issue: The guy said it just quit one day. Where the refrigerant lines feed the ice tray (sorry if I dont have exact terminology)—there are 2. The bottom one gets cold and hot like it should- the one up about 6″ from it never does anything. I got up on a ladder and the TXV that feeds it is frosted over. I am wondering if the TXV has a restriction or is bad. I took the bulb and put it in hot water. It made no difference in the operation but some of the frost melted. The lower tube- gets super super cold- but never makes the tray cold enough to start to freeze. When I was vacuuming- there apparently was some residual refrigerant and pulling it thru the filter made it get ice cold/frosted- and the tray as well- all of it. So either that TXV is bad- or a restriction somewhere—or a solenoid is not opening in sequence. I did check those solenoids- they are good. And- they do give you a nice shock if you are not careful. How often should it go into harvest? It seems go about every 10-15 min- I didn’t time it but it just starts to get really cold and then it goes in to harvest. This is a really old machine or used/abused machine– lots of corrosion and rust all over, really dirty and at what point is it not worth putting money in. I am sure the TXV is not cheap and I am not going to charge the guy all the labor for me wasting time- but I will charge him about 1/2 the time, plus refrigerant, leak repair, etc.
2 other question–call it question B and C:
B: I had to move a machine so pepsi could fix the stirring thing. Obviously they could have done it with the ice machine in place- I got the old one out- and put it back–whatever. ANYWAY- the drain is leaking inside the unit where it attaches to unit- (the fitting). Do I need to replace that fitting or can I just remove it and plumb with 1/2 pvc straight in to the ice machine?
C: I have noticed on all 3 of the different units that the one of the (non common) wires attached to the cap has been very hot and the plastic insulator on the spade connector is melted. on the 726 i had to change cap- the other 2 were ok. Is this a common problem? Do you recommend getting the OEM cap or if I use a good 30mfd like amrad or gentech its ok? I ask that because maybe they can’t handle this heat and current. Obviously electrically a 30mfd cap is 30mfd—I just dont want to be called to change caps every 6 months because the aftermarket ones couldn’t stand up to this.
THANK YOU GUYS. I owe you both.
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Alrighty, lots of info there, good.
So, if you have 2 evaps and 1 is being fed properly and the other is not, it’s the TXV, if the TXV is freezing over, it’s most likely feeding something but almost nothing, the TXV’s are not THAT expensive, I would just replace it as I have in the past.
The vacuuming and then freezing to me sounds like the tell-tale sign of water being evacuated as you pull the vacuum, this CAN happen and normally makes it annoying to vacuum, Normally, prior to any vacuum I blow out the lines with nitrogen to purge any contaminants and it also helps get any trapped moisture out, seems to help speed up the vacuum.
Again, it’s rare that the solenoid is the problem. If you have one evaporator freezing just fine and the other one is not, it’s the TXV or a restriction, but I would be thinking TXV, otherwise you can cut the inlet and outlet to the evap and blow it out if you want to verify.
Not sure about the drain, I’m not following the problem, the drain can be hard PVC, that’s how most I see are.
On the caps, I use generic caps on everything, the MFD rating and voltage have to be the same but that’s all I’ve ever paid attention to, if the spade is loose or the crimp was done poorly and has become loose, it will melt, happens all the time on spades in general with high loads on them, I try to solder them when possible.
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Thanks for letting us know how you are on this and detail of what you observe.
Cycle control on the ICE machines is different than any other. They have a suction pressure switch inside the control box that looks like this. It starts the freeze timer (dip switches) when the suction gets to the right pressure for freezing/ice making. At the end of timing it goes into harvest. The harvest assist motor has a clutch and cam on it. When the pin is allowed to push forward and the ice falls, the switch on the cam starts the freeze cycle.
The microswitch on the top right is called a bin full switch. It stops the machine from another cycle. It also does something unfamiliar with self contained machines. It sends the machine into a pump down to move all refrigerant to the receiver.
Unfortunately, with a Danfoss TXV You have to replace the whole valve. And Ice-O-Matic recommends replacing both at the same time on the dual evaporators.
Ice-O-Matic recommends a 200 micron vacuum plus 30 min. then watch the micron gauge for rise of less than 500 micros for 3 min. as proof of water removal and no leak. That takes a real good vacuum pump with fresh oil. Much lower than most systems want.
As for machine replacement, Look at the ice plates for any damage to the coating. Discoloration is OK, but missing or pitted plating is dangerous and not. As for the chassis rust, Ask yourself if a heath inspector would pass it. If it can possibly get into the bin, NO.
On your “C” Question. It all has to do with resistance. Usually from someone working on it previously. Wire size, conductor corrosion and connection of the spade terminal all come into play. If a high current spade terminal is easy to pull off or on, replace it. Use a quality leverage type crimper That has to make a full crimp before releasing. Not a pair of plier type. Yes, with dies, they are near $100, but they are a necessity in this trade. Make sure the cut back is sufficient to have bright copper, not oxidized. If cut back will not get to bright copper, replace the wire. High temp wire is silver coated to prevent oxidation. I’ve learned over the years that Mil spec connectors have the quality. I usually order them from a industrial supply house.
Also in relation to “C”, Short cycling from undercharge or splash curtain/bin switch. Or high head overload form the condenser not cooling enough makes for higher current flow. I’ve also seen compressor overloads that no longer is spec.
Cycle time for a 726 is 11 to 18 min. The initiate timer setting should start at 35, but may have been changed to get the 1/8 inch bridge.
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awesome- I will talk to the customer. Thank you both for your generosity of time and expertise to help me. I have an advantage of sorts- being an electrical engineer with 25 yr experience, and I worked at a company designing computer equipment and ac chillers to cool the cpu board heatsink—cpus were all hard wired in those days- microprocessor technology was not developed enough to power a mainframe with 200-500 users. That experience helps me- as all experience can.
I wanted to ask you–where are you? What if I wanted to come spend a day or 2 with you so that you could show me –a mini class if you will—if we didn’t have covid- I could probably arrange something with milehigh. think about what you would charge and how we could do it. I could have you come here and help with this one—and you could show me the nuts and bolts of troubleshooting and fixing them- as well as the “what to watch for”- and tips/tricks. Obviously I would cover your costs- but think about what you would charge if interested. Its a question of time- if you have time to get away for a day or 2- or not- then I could come there. As long as we work on one iceomatic and ideally some others that would be great.
I will tell customer we need a TXV. Thanks so much—Mark Stanley phoenix arizona mtstanley@cox.net
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As for training, as long as you understand the basics and advanced parts of refrigeration, how it works and how the components work, it doesen’t matter what you work on, it’s all the same stuff, same laws of physics, just put together differently, once that clicks properly in your brain, everything becomes much simpler, took some years for me to realize that.
If you have some questions about generic refrigeration, please go ahead and ask, me or Fixbear will be happy to answer them.
I find understanding theory outweighs the practical aspect as practical is only as good as the current situation is similar to that practical scenario you had.
My own experience across the fields I learned.
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One more question—-can I get a r404 txv with same specs or do I need to get the same from techtown parts or iceomatic? I would be more likely to order the one from manufacturer or partstown vs trying to find one locally.
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I think you can get a generic TXV, as long as it’s rated for the same BTU’s and the same refrigerant, I doubt it would matter.
Fixbear might know more than me on that but I think a generic one would work fine.
I normally try to cross over into the Sporlan self assembled TXV with the removable powerhead so that it’s easier to service in the future.
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On the dual feed evaporators, they are fed from the bottom and use a flooded evap. The TXV’s have to match. Probably why Ice-O-Matic recommends replacing both if one is bad. They are calibrated and brazed shut.
I’m near the Adirondack park in NY.
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Really? You can’t just use any TXV, why is that?
I would think as long as the BTU’s match and you can calibrate superheat, it wouldn’t matter.
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Mark, Check your inbox for a connection request. Then I can send you a private message.
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